POD256 | Bitcoin Mining, Freedom Tech, and Awesome Tangents

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Live from Bitcoin Park in Nashville during the Bitcoin Custody & Treasury Summit week, we sat down with Skot, Ryan, and Tyler for a deeply technical, candid, and fun conversation about open-source Bitcoin mining. We covered the buzz around the Park, the upcoming ImagineIF conference, and why decentralizing mining hardware, firmware, and pools matters for freedom tech and real-world heat-reuse applications. From hot-tub hash heaters and floor warming to tobacco curing with miner heat, we dug into the practical uses that demand configurability manufacturers don’t provide.

We traced the journey from reverse‑engineering legacy Antminer chips to today’s open-source Ember One and Bitaxe platforms, discussed the new Mujina firmware architecture, PMBus power monitoring, safety protections, and how USB-connected hashboards (Proto’s approach) reshape maintenance and scalability. We also explored speeding up IBD on Raspberry Pi via hardware crypto acceleration, the pain of buying miners through gray channels, why fans, power supplies, and idle power states must be user-controlled, and the push for auditable pool share accounting via Hydra Pool, Datum/Ocean compatibility efforts, and P2Pool-style accountability. If you care about open, modular, repairable, and verifiable mining at home or in the field this one’s for you.

[00:00:03] Unknown:

Good   morning.   We're going live on Riverside, apparently, and Twitter.   So for all those people who like to   watch live streams on Riverside, I didn't know that was a thing.   You can do that now.  

[00:00:21] Unknown:

Fantastic.   It's morning in Nashville?  

[00:00:29] Unknown:

It's always morning when I'm hosting. Yeah.   Yeah. September,   what, seventeenth?   They're doing the,   the   Bitcoin custody and treasury summit,   September   here at Bitcoin Park in Nashville. Going?   It's great. Things are a buzz. There's,   all sorts of people that have descended upon Bitcoin Park and,   you know, they're doing the summit upstairs in the event space and   the food and hosting and mingling and drinks and all that throughout the rest of the park.   And,   people have traveled   from far and wide like Ryan   to be here this week.  

[00:01:13] Unknown:

Busy week.  

[00:01:15] Unknown:

Yeah. Dude, Ryan, welcome to   the most fantastic podcast ever. Happy to have you here. Thank you. Glad to be here and in person.   I might be a little bit biased. But  

[00:01:28] Unknown:

Looking forward to seeing you guys soon.  

[00:01:30] Unknown:

Driving down tomorrow.  

[00:01:32] Unknown:

Yeah. I'll be there tomorrow morning.  

[00:01:34] Unknown:

Yeah. And then,   on Friday and Saturday, we're doing the ImagineIF conference, and all of us will be there.  

[00:01:42] Unknown:

Is Schnitzel gonna be there too?  

[00:01:44] Unknown:

No. He's not gonna be   here for that.   But I think in January, he'll come out for NAMS.   Nice. Yeah. For the Nashville Energy and Mining Summit. Is he gonna drive the hash tub out again? Oh. Too too early to tell. Too early to tell. I don't know.  

[00:02:04] Unknown:

He's gonna  

[00:02:06] Unknown:

we should just permanently install one here. Yeah. We really should. I feel like a an in ground   plumbed hot tub Yeah. With Bitcoin fired would be just   really nice way to,  

[00:02:19] Unknown:

to level up the park, I think. How how many m ones would that take, Tyler?  

[00:02:23] Unknown:

I   don't know. That m 64 was more than enough. You know, it's funny. I was I was in the basement of space last week going through bins of stuff, and I found the m 64 that Neil and Schnitzel, like, Jerry rigged to the hot tub at NEMS this year.   And I was like, what are these tubes and the wires all been cut? And   but we got it working.   Awesome. How many watts is that? It goes up to 5,000.  

[00:02:48] Unknown:

5,000.  

[00:02:50] Unknown:

Yeah. 228   Terahash.  

[00:02:52] Unknown:

Wow.  

[00:02:53] Unknown:

There aren't many left, man. I saw that MegaMiner.   Alex was telling me that they're all sold out.   I don't know if there's gonna be an m 74.  

[00:03:02] Unknown:

That's only 50 Embraer ones, Eco. Time to get rolling. That's right.  

[00:03:07] Unknown:

We can do it. We gotta manufacture those and then   make some designs with higher hash rate.  

[00:03:14] Unknown:

There you go. There we go. Yeah. Higher hash rate would be good. Yeah.  

[00:03:19] Unknown:

We'll get there.   Baby steps. I think a lot of people struggle with, like,   like, staying focused on   the mission we're trying to accomplish here. Like   like, you know, being critical of this idea that   the bid act started with just one chip, and it's got   low hash rate.   And, you know, they kinda discount   the whole,   like, everything it took to reverse engineer   and the position we were in with absolutely no support   from ASIC manufacturers.   And, like, there was no other way this could have possibly been done if it weren't for   Scott   having the ambition to reverse engineer the first one and, like,   get from zero to one. Right?  

And, like I had lots of help too, but, yeah.  

[00:04:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Scott, when did you realize it was crazy? Like, no one was gonna do it.   Yeah.  

[00:04:22] Unknown:

It it was many years ago. I I just, like, naively was like, oh, I wanna make my own ASIC Bitcoin miner. I'll just go download the open source design and and just base it on that. And then it was like a quick bit of googling around is like, wait, there's nothing.   There's this really interesting blog post from many years ago, and it was a guy who   reverse engineered or started to reverse engineer the chip in the Antminer s one.   Oh. And he had, like, basically hooked up   his,   computer to, an s one hash board, which   things have changed a lot since since back then. But,   it was seeing that one post. It was just like one post, and he documented some of the registers. And I I believe back then, there was kind of like a partial data sheet available for the s one chip. No way. Yeah.  

Yeah. Like a proper, you know, bit main labeled   data sheet that kinda outlined some of the registers and stuff. It was   not a super high quality production, but certainly better than what we have now.   So that guy got it working and and   posted, you know, this one off blog post. And I was like, okay.   So, you know, it's doable. That clued me in the fact that it's it's serial data   and how you send, you know, the idea of sending block headers to it.   Yeah. And then  

[00:05:48] Unknown:

just a lots of futzing with it. Then they realize they don't have to do that and people will still buy them.  

[00:05:54] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I saw you had a interesting   note about this in the the,   the show notes, Tyler. But, like,   at least,   Bitmain started off   kind of with this idea that they were gonna provide   data sheets for the chips. I don't know if they were selling them,   the chips individually.   I know that back then if you wanted to buy an Antminer, it was kind of like you posted in Bitcoin talk   and then sent Bitcoin off to China somewhere and hopefully got one.  

[00:06:27] Unknown:

My god. It hasn't changed that much in that regard.  

[00:06:30] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. It definitely hasn't changed that much except for no data sheet.   Yeah. And there isn't a central source for buying even the machines. Right? Which was your point is, like, why   why is there no, like,   authorized distributors?  

[00:06:46] Unknown:

Right. Yeah. This is something I ran into recently. People are asking me, oh, I want this miner. I just need one or two to heat my house, which is cool. There's interest in hashing at home at a larger scale. They've already got a BitX. They they're bought in.   And then they'll ask me, hey. Can I get this machine? And and an often question I get is, well, who do I talk to? Like, maybe I'll just do it myself. A lot of Bitcoiners are do it yourself type people. And I'm like, download WhatsApp or WeChat. Here you go. Good luck.   Like, that's the way to get them. I guess Telegram channels, it's not a slick process.  



[00:07:20] Unknown:

Yeah. It's it seems so sketchy at first when you   start getting into it. And, like, dude and there's so many scammers and, like Yep. It's so easy to, like, fall into these traps and pitfalls.   I remember when I bought my first miner, it was over Telegram.   And,   yeah, it was totally nerve wracking. You know, I bought a Whatsminer   m 31 s plus, and it was, like, I don't know, just under $3,000.   Like, that was a lot of money for me.   And and at that time, like, it   it wasn't,   very common for people like, individuals to be trying to buy one miner.   Right. Like   so  

[00:08:04] Unknown:

I guess they're   you know, I think you can buy directly from all the manufacturers, but, yeah, they don't call you back if you're like, I want one. Right. Yeah. They're like It's meant for commercial.   One pallet or, like, one Yeah.   Like, container full?  

[00:08:19] Unknown:

Yeah.   And then, like, on the Bitmain website, you could buy direct, but they wanted, like, all they wanted to get all your personally identifying information.   And I'm like I'm like, no. I I'm trying that's what I'm trying to avoid is sharing that with anybody.   Like, I just wanna plug this computer   into my outlet at home,   pay my utility bill, and then get Bitcoin that's not attached to my identity in any way.  

[00:08:46] Unknown:

Were they they were selling, Antminers for Bitcoin Cash for a while there. Yeah. Yeah. I remember seeing that being like,   what?  

[00:08:55] Unknown:

Yeah. Because They were on the wrong side of the block size four? Yeah.  

[00:08:58] Unknown:

Hell, yeah. Infamously. Yeah. They they fought   that,   which I think I heard their reasoning behind that was something to do with ASIC boost.   Because they had, like, secretly developed ASIC boost into the ASICs,   which required   them to   change the bits in the version field of the block header,   and that wasn't entirely   acceptable,   on Bitcoin   back then.   I think it since has been,   actually don't know. I was I was meaning to look this up the other day. Is   the ability to change the version bits a formal,   Bitcoin improvement   proposal? Like, does it have a BIP number?  

Oh. Because I noticed that when you Shacto  

[00:09:51] Unknown:

Yeah. Allowed.  

[00:09:53] Unknown:

When you are doing the initial block download on a knots,   node,   it   puts an error on every single block that has sort of nonstandard version bits, meaning version was rolled for ASIC boost.   And so it's just these errors going by of, like, non standard version bits, non standard version bits. It's like   well, I don't know. I think that's   accepted now.  

[00:10:18] Unknown:

Yeah. That's interesting.   You spun up a notched note? I don't know what's more interesting, the fact that, yeah, you spun up a notched note or that it throws those errors.  

[00:10:27] Unknown:

I did not spin up a notched note. This was someone else showing their log.  

[00:10:34] Unknown:

Still interesting.  

[00:10:36] Unknown:

I feel like I kinda wanna spin up a notes note, but,  

[00:10:40] Unknown:

I got one on my star nine. It was pretty easy. Was it? Yeah.  

[00:10:45] Unknown:

Did you have to redo the initial block download, or could it just use that? I had to redo.   That's fun.  

[00:10:52] Unknown:

Yeah.   Especially over Tor.  

[00:10:56] Unknown:

Oh, yeah.   How long did it take?   Like, two days. Oh, and what is it a Roc Pro 64? What's in the start nine?  

[00:11:07] Unknown:

Oh, mine's like a Dell Optiplex that I took from an old tax firm. Okay. Cool.  

[00:11:13] Unknown:

X 86. Boom. Yeah. That's right.   I   saw so I saw, Iko, you might be stoked on this.   There there's been some talk from actually a core developer   that perhaps   this hasn't been verified yet, but perhaps,   there's a when you're doing the initial block download, there's a verification step where it it goes back and it verifies all the blocks that it's downloaded.   And perhaps one of the cryptographic functions that's used in that is not optimized   for the Raspberry Pi four's processor,   Meaning that   and this is this is sort of the the hunch, I guess, is that   if, you know, Bitcoin Core or not were changed to use   the cryptographic functions built into the processor, that this would be quite a bit faster on a Raspberry Pi four processor.  



[00:12:07] Unknown:

Wait. Sorry. I sneezed. Which cryptographic function works better on the Raspberry Pi four?  

[00:12:13] Unknown:

Well, so, like, you know, when you're verifying the blocks, you're doing various cryptographic functions on them, like, in the the node software is doing that, and it has to do it on every block. And   there's always a way you can do it just,   like, with the CPU where you sort of,   do all the math,   manually.   But modern CPUs all have, cryptographic function accelerators, meaning they have   special instructions   in the CPU that can do this faster. Like, it's hardware accelerated to do various cryptographic things. Like, SHA two fifty six is one of those. Oh, interesting.   But there's several others that are apparently used in validating blocks.  

And,   you you know, clearly, they've got it right for Intel chips and,   maybe some other ARM chips, but the   this idea was that   it's not properly using those accelerator those cryptographic function hardware accelerators on Raspberry   Pi four's ARM processor.   Oh, interesting. Yeah. So if they got that right, then potentially the IBD could be sped up quite a bit   on,  

[00:13:20] Unknown:

Raspberry Pi. That'd be a fun benchmark   for   new processors, like benchmark their cryptographic hardware acceleration by just mining Bitcoin.  

[00:13:30] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. You can't do that. You can, there's a project called, CPU miner   Mhmm. By a guy called,   Pooler, I believe.   And if you look in there,   it does check to see what kind of processor you have, and it switches   sort of how the SHA-two 56 hashes are done based on what processor you have to use the hardware acceleration in there. And that's how they get,   I think it was on the order of, like,   a thousand   mega hash per second out of a CPU.  

[00:14:03] Unknown:

Wow.   I recall,   Eric Foscol   saying something about Lib Bitcoin   being able to do IBD and, like  

[00:14:13] Unknown:

Wait. Just I I spoke incorrectly. It's a thousand kilohash per second. So, like, one one megahash. We're not doing gigahashes on CPUs. Sorry. Oh, okay.  

[00:14:24] Unknown:

But you guys are familiar with Lib Bitcoin and and Eric Bosco.   He I recall him saying something about,   his,   project being able to do initial block download   in, like, less than a day.  

[00:14:40] Unknown:

I saw that. I saw that. That's pretty interesting. Do you know what he what he's doing differently?   I would assume it's it's this validation step because you're not gonna necessarily change the network throughput,   or the, like,   SSD write speeds. Right. Those things are gonna be fixed by your hardware.  

[00:15:01] Unknown:

But it's And those aren't the bottlenecks?  

[00:15:03] Unknown:

Well, they are a bottleneck. That's why you wanna have a fast, like, NVMe SSD in your node and ideally not, like, a bullshit Internet connection.  

[00:15:12] Unknown:

Yeah. I did it over Starlink once, and that that sucked.  

[00:15:16] Unknown:

But I think even if you have fast Internet and a fast SSD connected to your Raspberry Pi, it's still quite slow. And that is like a processor bottleneck in doing the the verification steps.  

[00:15:29] Unknown:

And it's it's definitely gotten   noticeably worse over the years. I went back and looked at, like, an old article I wrote on   spinning up a Bitcoin node on a Raspberry Pi four.   And at the time, I had noted that it took me, like, four days   versus   using the same software   earlier this year when I,   did that public pool self hosted public pool article.   It took me over two weeks to   do IBD.  

[00:16:02] Unknown:

That's so crazy. Just because it's more data or it's just it's just slower   to do the process?  

[00:16:09] Unknown:

I think   the increase in,   the   from what I understand,   like, the UTXO set because of all the ins ins, inscriptions and JPEGs and all that.  

[00:16:24] Unknown:

When you're mining, is it actually just kilobyte packet size, though?   Small bandwidth?  

[00:16:30] Unknown:

When you yeah. When you're mining, it's it's really low bandwidth. It's like it's like 80 bytes for the block header, isn't it?   Yeah. And that I mean, there's some other stuff both up and down.   You know, latency does matter. So that's Sure. As soon as you knew. If you find a block, you wanna get that out to the network as soon as possible.   You also wanna get notified   of the network finding new blocks so you can switch to that work as soon as possible.   But,   yeah, it's it's relatively low bandwidth. Like, I don't think we're gonna be able to do this over LoRa   or,   I I guess you could do it over,   like a cellular data connection.  



[00:17:14] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. You can. That's how a lot of the, like, off grid mining stuff is connected.  

[00:17:19] Unknown:

Okay. Yeah.  

[00:17:21] Unknown:

But it's not like you need a a super fat pipe. Right? You just need Yeah. A relatively low latency one. Right.  

[00:17:31] Unknown:

Yeah. Because Hirschman had worked on some cool network devices, right, before even mining that they ultimately use as their backups with gridless.  

[00:17:40] Unknown:

Yep. Yes. Yeah. He's got a really cool setup. It's really neat with some cellular stuff in there, and then it's running   running some code that they wrote to,   manage the miners.  

[00:17:51] Unknown:

Yeah. They use,   Starlink. If I recall correctly, is Starlink's their primary, and then they've got a redundant backup   over cellular.   And then if   because they're supplying,   like,   a type of balancing   infrastructure component   in some of their operations,   they need those miners to continue   drawing the power when they're running. And so they've   designed, like, a fail safe so that, like, even if the Starlink and the mobile data both go out, then it falls back to, like, a a fake mining pool for the miners to switch to. Oh, that's neat. They're just doing dummy work, so but so they can keep their power consumption up   to make sure they're keeping whatever little localized grid they're connected to stable.  



[00:18:42] Unknown:

That could be a firmware feature. Right, Ryan?  

[00:18:44] Unknown:

Yeah. I was biting my tongue.   Yeah. Actually,   the very first twinkle in my eye about doing firmware   was, like, the very first NEMS.   And,   Gridless was up there talking about   about this problem. Right? Like, their Internet drops, and then   their miners   stop hashing, and their generators go no load and, like Yeah. My god.   So they were talking about ways to solve that, including   it was not only, like, a having a fake pool,   but also, like, well, what they were, like, musing. What if we design hash boards where, like, next to the ASIC, there was, like, some resistive dummy load   that, like, software would switch. Like,   I remember sitting in the crowd just thinking,   no, man. This this, like, we this should be a totally solved problem in software. Like, you should be able to just mine dumb work. Yeah. Like, your ASICs haven't gone bad. You've just lost Right. New work.  

You could you can keep them running,   to keep drawing powers. That yeah. That was my very first but then I think that was at the first NEMS. So when was that? '23?  

[00:19:53] Unknown:

Yeah. I think twenty twenty three January.  

[00:19:57] Unknown:

The Yeah. So if when when not yet. When gridless runs Magina.   Mhmm. That's right. They can retire their fake pool. Yeah.  

[00:20:05] Unknown:

The chips themselves remember, Ryan, when I gave you that BitX and you loaded BitX Raw on there?   The chips themselves, when you power them on and pull the, enable pin,   low,   they will start hashing. I think just They'll just go. Yeah. They'll just start hashing zeros. They'll go to full power,   right away, especially if you ramp up the frequency.   So they they're kinda dumb in that respect. Right? It's like if you don't send it a job to hash, I I think it just starts hashing zeros.   Wow.   So   I think the reason why,   Gridless needed to do this is because the firmware probably notices   that there's no jobs from the pool and does what most people would would want, which is to turn off the ASICs. Right.  

So you're not just wasting power.   So the cool thing is when they're running Magina, when everyone's running Magina, is you can kind   of just pick what you wanna do there. Now would it stop if you  

[00:21:05] Unknown:

mined your dummy block,   your hashing zeros?   There's there's no communication with the difficulty target. Right? So  

[00:21:13] Unknown:

I mean, I get well, so if it   if it's just hashing zeros and it's increasing the nonce and version,   I guess you could find a block. I think we would know by now if that was a valid block, but it wouldn't be valid as far as the bit Bitcoin network is concerned   because it doesn't have a valid, like, previous block hash and block height and all that good stuff. So it should continue, which is what they want.  

[00:21:39] Unknown:

Yeah. The chips Yeah. The chips never stop. They just Yeah. Keep going. They just keep rolling.   They'll even wrap around and   roll the same work they   used to, you know, that they've already rolled through. So It's so funny  

[00:21:55] Unknown:

to think how   they want a feature that is antithetical to what the industrial miners want that are on grid.   It's so cool to think about. You wouldn't they would have never thought, oh, we should build this.  

[00:22:08] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:22:09] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, the I guess that's kinda what we're all about here is these other use cases.   Yeah. It's like my stupid Nest thermostat, if the Internet goes down, I can't turn on my heat. Like, that's not cool. Yeah. So we got the same problem here is if your Internet goes down, you're still gonna wanna,   fire up that miner and get your hot tub warm.  

[00:22:28] Unknown:

Right. That's right.  

[00:22:30] Unknown:

Yep. Hence, the importance of this stuff being free to inspect and modify and run however you want.  

[00:22:38] Unknown:

100%.  

[00:22:39] Unknown:

Yeah. Mhmm. Do you wanna give us a Magina update since or listeners since we brought up Magina?  

[00:22:46] Unknown:

Sure.   Well, I guess the most   exciting development,   I'll start there, is is a hardware development.   Monday night,   I received the very first   number one v four.  

[00:23:05] Unknown:

Alright. From Scott. Good job, Scott. Thank you. Have you plugged it in yet?  

[00:23:11] Unknown:

No. Because, unfortunately, I was packing to come here to Nashville.   So here I've been waiting for months. Do you have it in your bag with you? No. I don't. Okay. Alright. I did bring it to Nashville with me, but I'm not   so my setup at home is, you know, I have   I have stuff plugged into a server and all, like, instrumented to death on my bench.  

[00:23:33] Unknown:

Nice. Dude, he was showing me his setup. He's got   the bid ax on this, like, robotic,   stand,   and he can remotely   tell it to push physically push the reset button.  

[00:23:50] Unknown:

No. It doesn't physically it doesn't physically push the reset button.  

[00:23:55] Unknown:

Oh, I thought there was, like, a little, like, plunger that No. I have I have wired across the switch.  

[00:24:00] Unknown:

Oh, okay. Remotely close the switch, but not the actual physical switch. Gotcha. Okay. Still  

[00:24:06] Unknown:

a hardo.  

[00:24:08] Unknown:

That's amazing. Well,  

[00:24:10] Unknown:

I I was just showing him how, like, the normal way I work on a project   is to kind   of, wire up the hardware,   in this fixed spot, you know, where   pretty much everything about it is remotely controllable.   So my power supplies are remotely controllable. It's hooked up to the logic analyzer. I can access remotely.   You know, I'll wire across certain switches   and   so that I can throw those remotely.   It started out just being a lazy thing. Like,   I wanted to be able to work on hardware, like, even if I was at the coffee shop.   Like, I didn't wanna be tied to my desk. Like   and I travel a lot, so it's like, oh, I wanna be able to access things wherever I'm at. So,   so I kinda force myself to, like, set it up so that it's completely remotable.  

But then that had side benefits that I still enjoy. Like, it makes it really easy to automate things.   If everything is remote like that, then it's easy to just script something up. So, like,   if I wanna switch the BIDEX back and forth between BIDEX raw   and real BIDEX firmware,   like, that's just a script that will step through and do all the things, including hold down the boot button as it cycles power. Like  

[00:25:25] Unknown:

so That is so cool. What are what do you use how to control all this?  

[00:25:30] Unknown:

It's mostly just custom Python scripts that I've whipped up over the years.  

[00:25:34] Unknown:

So, like, just GPIOs going to the the   the reset button and all that?  

[00:25:40] Unknown:

Well, so I've sort of standardized, like I have this I probably have the largest   tree of USB devices ever. Like Nice. Like, you're allowed, what, like,   seven levels of hubs and, like, I think up to, like, a 128 devices.   Found a limit. I have pushed that   limit.   It's funny. Like, some host controllers on   Linux Linux servers fall over before you hit USB   actual specified limits.   Anyway, that's a long story. But   I try to make most things, like, plug into USB. So I've got these,   you like   USB connected relays.   That's how I do the the boot button.  

[00:26:20] Unknown:

Okay.   That's awesome.  

[00:26:22] Unknown:

My power so yeah. Pretty much everything just fits into this   USB tree that all wires back to my   my server. And so and then I have scripts where I just say it like a I have this command called rack where I've collected all this stuff. So I just kinda say   and and there's, like, a config file where I tie everything together. So I just say, like, rack   power on or power cycle,   bit x.   And then it knows, like, which USB port that is and, like, what switches do what and, like, oh, that's this power supply and  

[00:26:55] Unknown:

so so amazing. And then you just Oh, so you're working on this?  

[00:27:00] Unknown:

What's that?  

[00:27:01] Unknown:

Yeah. I should  

[00:27:02] Unknown:

This is cool. This is good. That's the future smart home. Remember when you were researching, Scott, how much, like, hash rate is in parasitic power draw?  

[00:27:11] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:27:12] Unknown:

So no. So so yeah. No. This was really just born of me being lazy,   a lazy engineer.   I remember yeah. One of my first   engineering jobs, my boss had   a a sign on his whiteboard said some it was something about, like,   how engineers aren't just aren't aren't actually lazy.   They're just efficient or I don't this was just this was just me wanting to be able to work on Yeah. You end up working for the lazy guy.   Yeah. Because he automated everything. Because he automated everything away. Yeah.   So, anyway, long story short, like, I thought about throwing I, you know, I had a few hours. I thought about throwing number one into   into its   space in the rack.  

But I didn't wanna, like, do that and then leave home and then have it, like, catch fire or,   you know I need I need to spend a little time with it first before I trust it remotely.  

[00:28:08] Unknown:

Hence, the question you asked me of, like, how hard are these MOS keyboards? How are MOS computers? That's when  

[00:28:13] Unknown:

I was considering, like, do   I have to cool that part of the board? You're like, yeah. But keep an eye on it. I'm like, yeah. I better not plug it in before I leave then. Send me, like, a thermal camera pointing Oh, I'm gonna do something. With this network that I did. Right? I like the AI to determine if it's too hot in any location.   I was thinking about,   yeah,   get it I was I was looking for, like, USB   boards that drive, like, little thermocouples or something and, like, I'll glue those on top.   I mean, I think that would be a good   that's not just for being lazy. But, like, at least for this first number one, it would be nice to have   more data   like that than we even built into the production thing. Like like, if I could monitor the temperature of those power supply MOSFETs,   it would be it would be good just to know on a development board. Oh, no. We don't have a problem with this. No worries.  



[00:29:09] Unknown:

It's not something we'll have every yeah. That that will happen. You can you can monitor the voltage regulator temperature.   Obviously, the switches on the bit ax, and it's just because we use a more advanced voltage regulator.   And so that's kind of that's one of my projects for the next Ember one is to get a more advanced   voltage regulator that has,   like, PM bus monitoring   of everything, like the input voltage, the output voltage. It has a whole   suite of, like, threshold voltages and temperatures that you can put in where it'll automatically shut off if it exceeds any of those  

[00:29:42] Unknown:

things. So Yeah. That the PMIC and the bit x gamma is great.  

[00:29:46] Unknown:

It is. It well,   it's   it's very featureful. I've spent the last, like, week and a half wrestling with the settings there. But yeah. Wow.  

[00:29:58] Unknown:

Is that the same one you recommended   Schnitzel use on the LibriBoard?   The voltage regulator?  

[00:30:05] Unknown:

Well, he found it. He he found it. It is in the same series, so we'll have it as, like,   the automatic, like, fault,   settings and,   what they they call it PM bus. I believe it's, like, power management bus is the name of it. It's, like, specifically set up to monitor these sort of things.  

[00:30:27] Unknown:

Yeah.   I I,   so back to Magina for a second.   So   while I've been waiting for number one, I've been using the bit x gamma as a hash board,   with special firmware so that it's just kinda passed through to Magina so it behaves like a number one.   So I wrote the driver for that,   the PMIC on the BitX gamma.   Nice. And and kept it, like, really abstract. So it's it's it's basically like a PM bus driver. It it should drive any PM bus   PMIC without too much modification.  

[00:31:05] Unknown:

Okay. This is huge. Alright. Because that's yeah. So it's gonna be a future going forward. That'll be nice to have that in there. Yeah.  

[00:31:11] Unknown:

So that should work well because Schnitzel's gonna put   I would assume they're PMBus compatible   regulators on   LieberBoard.  

[00:31:21] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:31:22] Unknown:

And then you're likely to put that in the future. Yeah. I was sort of disappointed, like, when I got back around to thinking about number one, I was like, oh, yeah. That's right. We had to use a   it was so that that's part of why   you're   probably going to limit the voltage input on number ones in the future. Right? Because it's so hard to find a power supply. It is so hard to find a 24 volt power supply that can go  

[00:31:47] Unknown:

that low at the A regulator  

[00:31:49] Unknown:

that can   Yeah. So that's probably what that's so that's why the one on number one,   double o.   Yeah. It's gonna be hard to name these when there's more than one.  

[00:32:00] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:32:02] Unknown:

I'm gonna have trouble with that. Number 1OOV4.   Why that doesn't have PMBus   is because that you were just limited in your choices   for that reason. Well, I mean,  

[00:32:14] Unknown:

it hopefully can be abstracted   to the microcontroller that's on the board. So,   you know, we have that that RP twenty forty on the ember ones. It's a microcontroller   that connects over USB. So,   you know, and the Ember One does have temperature sensors on it. So we can we can hopefully   well, I guess we should talk about if that's the right way to go. But in theory, we could abstract it so it provides kind of a   a Which could.  

[00:32:42] Unknown:

Interface. Well, it's no big deal either for Magina to just   recognize, oh, this board   doesn't have you know, it it knows what board it's connected to, so it knows what power supply what   PMIC is there   and what it can do with it. Are you thinking That's the way I'm gonna do it for now. Are you thinking of upgrading it for the,  

[00:33:04] Unknown:

Intel version of the Ember one?  

[00:33:06] Unknown:

Yes.   Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.   And then I suppose at some point we could back port that to   the,   Intel, the, you know, the first Ember one double o. Mhmm.  

[00:33:20] Unknown:

So I don't remember. So on BitX Gamma,   are the   switches themselves   inside the IC or are they external? Yeah. They are. They're internal switches. So So that's why it's gonna be drive the temperature of the voltage regulator part. So that's why I can give you a good,   good temperature measurement.   Or is that number one, like, I'm gonna have to measure those   externally?  

[00:33:45] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. I   on v four, there's a temperature sensor, sort of an external temperature sensor connected to I two c that's up there, like, near   the voltage regulator. So   maybe we could kind of infer the   voltage regulator temperature from that.  

[00:34:06] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:34:08] Unknown:

Well, for develop   you know, I guess there's a question of for development purposes,   we're just trying to verify that it's not gonna melt itself   and everything is saying about the design.   Like, every every board in production doesn't need those temperature measurements necessarily.  

[00:34:24] Unknown:

Mhmm.   So,   for listeners, I don't think we mentioned this last week, but there is now a   v 4.1   tag on the Ember one project. Right?   Yeah. So we've got a release candidate,   but we wanna build one and test that the over voltage protection circuit actually works,   by attempting to fry the board.   Right? Am I right here? Yep. Yep.   Before we do that release. So  

[00:34:58] Unknown:

Yes.   Yes. Shout out to Zach. He contributed that circuit design, and I incorporated it on v four.   But being as there's only   there's exactly one working v four right now,   I didn't want to,   you know, sacrifice it for that test. So v Yeah. 4.1 is just a teeny tiny little, bug fix   on it. There's no functional changes.   But then we can,   you can build up some of those   some of those boards, and we'll,   I mean, hopefully, not sacrifice, but we'll we'll attempt to, blow them up and and make sure that that works properly. Mhmm.  

[00:35:38] Unknown:

What is the power supply like for the Ember one platform   in terms of if you have multiple hashboards connecting to the Libra control board? Will there be multiple power supply recommendations,   options?  

[00:35:52] Unknown:

It's just up to you.   The   it's kinda like, an Antminer, I guess, in that regard is that you can plug in any power supply you want to it. So you need to it's up to you to make sure that it has the right voltage output and the right,   power rating for how many Amber one boards you have connected to it.   So, you know, you could if you just have one Amber one, you could potentially do it from, like, a small little, you know, plug in 100 watt   wall wart   type plug.   But if you have multiple, you know, you each one is gonna be a 100 watts, so you need to to scale up appropriately. But there's nothing stopping you from doing   multiple power supplies if you wanted and just connect it that way.  



[00:36:35] Unknown:

Is it a power supply   stand alone issue to solve for   parasitic power loss? So I I learned that with certain miners,   even if they're in an idle state,   but you want the control board to be able to receive commands,   some of them   pull in excess of a couple 100 watts just sitting, not hashing, and that the power supply is eating it. And some farmers, I know Luxo s implemented this for a handful of versions of the s 19 series,   They dropped that to, like, lower than 20 watts, just the control board staying idle, ready to receive commands, spin the hash boards up,   which most people wouldn't care about. Like but for me, for heating, I don't wanna just burn 400 watts for no reason and get no sats.  

Is that a nonissue for the number  

[00:37:22] Unknown:

one? Well, it'll it'll have significantly less than a 100 watts,   of Yeah. Live of idle power draw. Right?   If you wanna keep it in a responsive state where you could enable it,   it's gonna be,   like, a few watts, I think. Right? Because we need well, we need to power the control board,   and then   there's   I I remember I looked at it for the Embraer one, but it's it's, like, on the order of,   like, less than one watt for each Embraer one to stay on but disabled.  

[00:37:57] Unknown:

So it must just be some quirk with the the mining systems that come from Bitmain and MicroBT.   When you power them through their power supply,   it just eats some power while it's keeping that control board. Well, you said that they were able to fix this with third party firmware. So Yes. On certain models. I was talking to David Erlacher about this   a while back, so I don't exactly remember   what the answer was. But it was an interesting challenge that I knew some people were facing.  

[00:38:23] Unknown:

That sounds to me like they found a way   to to change the state, you know, like how the the chips are configured such that they can go into this low power state.   Yeah. I wonder if it's   because some   some ant miners   have, like,   a big fat set of MOSFETs to actually kill power to the hash board.   Mhmm. Mhmm. That's like the the older j pros and s nineteens and stuff like that. But Bitmain got rid of that going forward, and so the newer ones,   they can't actually   control power,   to the hash boards, which is why I think they don't work so well   if,   you know, if if you have, like, a malfunctioning   dashboard connected,   is they can't just, like, disable it easily.  

But, yeah, it'd be interesting to know, like, which because you said it works for some miners. They can put some miners. Yes. I do remember that. It wasn't all.   If you if we could figure out which DIP main machines   they can do that with and and which ones they can't, then we could probably figure out what it is that they're doing.  

[00:39:30] Unknown:

And then does that mean Proto has to be doing something different if they can have hot swappable   hashboards or continue to have the system mine when one board is dead?  

[00:39:39] Unknown:

Yeah. Certainly, they need to be able to put it into a a low power state.   The Proto hashboards have a pretty advanced   controller   on   each hash board.   So,   I don't know if they have those, like, power MOSFETs to switch off power to the board or not. Maybe they do.   I have to look closer at that   and see.   But, yeah, they they clearly do have a lot more control because they're they're USB connected hash boards, and that USB from the control board to the hash board   is talking to a, yeah, a more advanced controller on the hash board so they can they can do more   smart   things, like what we have on the Ember One.  



[00:40:20] Unknown:

Let's go.  

[00:40:22] Unknown:

Yeah. It's pretty cool.  

[00:40:25] Unknown:

And control the fans from the hash boards. Right?  

[00:40:29] Unknown:

Yeah. That's right. They do. They control and power the fans   Right. Through the hash board, which I thought was an interesting choice. I'm not sure I fully understand   why they do that, but The proto rig does? Yeah.   That is interesting. Yeah. They even have some voltage regulation   on the hash board for the fans.  

[00:40:50] Unknown:

But then they also said it's immersion ready, so it must be able to be disabled,   the fan signal.  

[00:40:57] Unknown:

Yeah. Certainly. Certainly, they can   disable it.   It's gotta be.  

[00:41:03] Unknown:

Yeah. They've probably pulled that up into the,   in the fleet, I'd imagine.   Probably. There's probably just like a toggle or something.  

[00:41:13] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. That I mean, I guess the issue there is you don't wanna freak out and shut down the whole miner when fans aren't reporting speed.   Yep. Right. So all these fans, they have built in monitoring for the RPM value of the fan.   And so   a, less advanced firmware   will just be like, oh, like zero RPM on my fans, like,   it's broken, turn it off.  

[00:41:37] Unknown:

People made those spoofers.  

[00:41:39] Unknown:

Yes. That's right.   That's such   a stupid hack. Like,   I mean, those spoofers is like, come on. This is a firmware change, you guys. Like, let's get real.   I mean, the the Loki rig is the the Loki board is the same way. I mean, I love the Loki board. That's an awesome thing, but it's the same way. It's just   it's   because we have this inflexible closed source firmware,   you can't change it. But in in that firmware is hard coded, like, if I haven't heard from the power supply,   then just stop working.   So it's a it the Loki board fakes the power supply so that you can use a s nine power supply, which doesn't have any sort of communication.   And so the Loki board fakes that communication from the power supply to be like, no. No. I'm still here.  



[00:42:32] Unknown:

So then will Magina and Libra have   because it's configurable and you can have it in any kind of application or stack up or scale,   it shouldn't expect a certain type of fan or a certain fan speed as long as the temperatures are all happy. Right? Because I know that Zach put a lot of work into the Nord board too, which lets you put an AC Infinity fan, a larger mass flow rate fan, a quieter fan,   directly onto the control board, and the miner will adjust that fan speed up and down like it would with its stock fans.   But I'm just thinking in terms of the Ember one platform, there's gonna be guys that have   ripping fast little screamer fans, and there's gonna be people who have, you know, large, slow moving circulator fans in their furnace.  



[00:43:15] Unknown:

Those   those AC Infinity fans that are used with the Nordboard,   they are USB   controllable?   I don't   recall. I wonder how they interface to the Nord board.   I kinda thought it was USB, but  

[00:43:31] Unknown:

That sounds right.  

[00:43:33] Unknown:

That is something that   presumably, you could just attach to your,   control board, the USB ports in your control board, and then,   Magina could just support that directly.  

[00:43:45] Unknown:

Yeah.   What do you think, Ryan?  

[00:43:49] Unknown:

Yeah. No. I was just sitting here thinking, like, that's one of the things that we've   that I   have not really run into or thought about or addressed yet is some of those more system level   issues,   that aren't local to one dashboard.   So, like, a bit x is a case where the fan is built   onto the dashboard.   Mhmm. So I do monitor that Mhmm. And control that, make sure it's working.   But Amber one's gonna be different because Amber one doesn't the the fan on the Amber one is not controlled from Amber one. It's more of a system level fan.   So Right.  

Right now,   I'm not even controlling it.   Where's he gonna turn them on and let it rip? But, yeah, there's gonna be things like that that are   well, Gina is not just managing hashboards, but now it's it has to understand there's a system of hashboards here. Mhmm.  

[00:44:44] Unknown:

Yeah. It's like we're trying to undo all of the,   the modern cars are this way where every little headlight is coated to the VIN of the car. And if you don't do anything right and get it repaired from   Audi directly or whatever, then it won't turn on.   But we're just trying to say, hey.   If everything's happy and you got fuel and you got air and you got voltage and you got current, you're good to go.  

[00:45:07] Unknown:

Turn on. Yeah. The way the way it should be, man. Yeah. Yeah.  

[00:45:10] Unknown:

That seems like a gnarly rent seeking feature that I don't think many people will spend much time adding to Magina.  

[00:45:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Like,   imagine you, like, go to Napa Auto Parts to get your headlight, you install it, and your car is like,   that's not an official Audi   headlight,   so it's we're not gonna turn it on. Like, we'd rather you drive with one headlight than   spend money at an aftermarket shop.  

[00:45:35] Unknown:

I saw a dude who got   a wrecked new Lamborghini Hybrid one.   Airbags didn't go off. Or, no, they did go off, but it was just a fender bender.   Replaced the bumpers, all this stuff, some suspension.   Car wouldn't turn on.   They didn't release the firmware fix   to essentially reset the ECU, the hybrid car that would unlock the battery. So he had to buy a $30,000   brand new lithium ion battery from Oh, come on. $30,000   because there was no software   to unlock the battery after the car had been put into a locked state  

[00:46:10] Unknown:

from a fender bender. That's right. That's so bad.   I feel like he coulda he coulda put out, like, a $5,000   bounty on, like, some hacker forum. Probably.  

[00:46:20] Unknown:

I know that Jason at Ocean used to hack Teslas. He probably coulda done it. Right. Yeah.  

[00:46:25] Unknown:

I remember at my first job out of college,   an engineering consulting company. A company came in that made literally   it was a bathroom air freshener   with replaceable cartridges, and they came to us because they wanted   to kill the third party cartridge market for their thing.   They're like, how can we make it so our machine doesn't work if someone plugs in a, you know, physically identical?  

[00:46:52] Unknown:

God, dude. It's ridiculous.   Yeah. It's ridiculous. Dude, once you, like, buy hardware that's your hardware, like, you should be able to do whatever you want with that hardware.  

[00:47:03] Unknown:

You really should. And they always play it off, like, oh, no. It's some, like, warranty safety certification thing. Yeah. It's like,  

[00:47:10] Unknown:

that's weak. For your safety. Yeah.  

[00:47:12] Unknown:

Right. That's weak. I mean, that's what Vivian does with their warranties too. Right? It's like, oh, you load aftermarket firmware   on there because you didn't wanna use our garbage firmware. Yeah. And then we're gonna just, like, deny your warranty.  

[00:47:23] Unknown:

All of our freedoms are just getting railroaded out of precaution   here.  

[00:47:29] Unknown:

Oh, precaution and, like you said, some kind of rent seeking Yeah.   Like, the bathroom air freshener thing. Like, well, they made all the money. Mindset. Yeah. It is. Right. They wanted you to subscribe to a bathroom air freshener. Really. Right? You know, this was their way of enforcing that.  

[00:47:45] Unknown:

You'll own nothing. You'll be happy.  

[00:47:47] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:47:48] Unknown:

This is like a problem with the the whole VC world is, like, let's talk about your reoccurring revenue model, you know. And so they're like, oh, well, we're gonna make it so that you have to buy air freshener cartridges from us, like, every month. Otherwise, the thing won't work. And they're like, okay. Cool. Great. We'll invest in   it's it's bad.   Yeah. It's really bad across the board.  

[00:48:08] Unknown:

I love my heat bit, but the, air filters are a subscription. I can't just buy one.  

[00:48:13] Unknown:

Oh, Lane. Homer. Yeah. Oh, hang on. We got, someone's in the chat here.   Did you guys see that?   Oh.   What did it say?   I love Oh, it's Dylan. Their subscription.  

[00:48:31] Unknown:

Dylan's supposed to be working right now.  

[00:48:35] Unknown:

Dylan, get back to work.   You gotta pay for that air freshener subscription.  

[00:48:40] Unknown:

Yeah. So, Tyler, I'm I'm so excited to see all the things you've been posting   because you guys are killing that space   with, the heated floor and everything else. Every time I definitely. Every time I see you post, so I'm always like, oh, man.   How are we gonna   get how are we gonna get Magina powering this The WattsMiner?   This floor heating system. And then I see it's like a WattsMiner  

[00:49:04] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. Wow. It's no fun.   Thing.  

[00:49:09] Unknown:

So we'll get there. But   Let's make it the stomping ground. Anything you wanna test, we'll do it. Yeah. Okay. We gotta figure out a way. Because I I want it to be powered by open source software. Yeah.  

[00:49:21] Unknown:

There's a project   Totally. I I know,   closed source company has reverse engineered the WhatsMiner protocol, and I I know you were talking about this earlier.   It's epic. Is it epic? It's epic. Yeah. Epic has done it,   but there's also an open source project to reverse engineer it too. So   looking forward to seeing progress on that. That's gonna be the unlock for,   installing something like Magina on a What's Minor.  

[00:49:47] Unknown:

Do you Yeah. Do you recall what that open source project is called?  

[00:49:54] Unknown:

Well, it's, it's out of Kenya. I believe it's  

[00:49:59] Unknown:

Oh.  

[00:50:00] Unknown:

Yeah. It Okay. It does I don't know if it has an official name yet.  

[00:50:04] Unknown:

Gotcha.  

[00:50:05] Unknown:

But they they have   they have,   a couple   good engineers working on it. Yep. And, basically, a directive at this point to do it. So I think that's happened.  

[00:50:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Sweet. I'm picking up what you're putting down.  

[00:50:22] Unknown:

Let's go. You can tell me later. Okay.  

[00:50:26] Unknown:

Ryan, we'll have to do a case study of something with all the Magina and Lieber Board and the whole stack up, straps the member ones guys to the water heaters at the space. We got three of them because we we have   so many different energy and information systems to play around with. Like, we have our own Proxmox server. We have our nodes. We have solar.   We have all these APIs of energy in, energy be out, energy out. We got miners. We got smart thermostats. Like, we can make this crazy   And a case study building. An LLM too. Right?   Yeah. We do have that. That was such poor timing. I posted that video of the of the Avalon strapped to our HVAC doc, and I forgot to mention in the video. Oh, yeah. That screaming noise is not a Bitcoin miner. It's   it's a two u server rack behind me.  



[00:51:13] Unknown:

Awesome.  

[00:51:14] Unknown:

Yeah. That thing's so loud. That's just a little, like, one inch server fans.  

[00:51:18] Unknown:

We gotta,   reverse the,   the Canon   protocol too. Right? Because they're making chips.  

[00:51:26] Unknown:

Yeah. I saw that,   Rick, CryptoCloaks just made a duct finally for it too, so now I don't have to use cardboard. Just connect it to our he three d printed a nice adapter so we can get it in our plenum. Oh, okay. Good. Yeah. Very nice.   Yeah.  

[00:51:42] Unknown:

So that's sort of just a reminder that,   you know, our focus initially   is obviously on making the number one   and number one zero two or whatever whenever, you know, the the next number one with that may,   with the Intel chips and everything else. Like, our focus will always be on making those work first because that's our own hardware. But Yeah. Obviously, the vision for Regina is much bigger. Right.   And   these industrial miners are   are not forgotten. They're just down the list a little bit. So when we get to that point,   you know,   we will either reverse engineer ourself   or we will draw on whatever   anyone has done   to to reverse engineer it so far Mhmm.  

You know, to get these other systems working so that yeah. I mean, I will be really happy when your floor   in the space is being driven by Mujina   running on a Lieber board,   plugged into your  

[00:52:44] Unknown:

That'd be awesome.  

[00:52:45] Unknown:

Your water,   cooled   mining rig, I guess. Yeah.  

[00:52:50] Unknown:

One of my,   well, one of my responses to Christian from brains, he had a a Oh, yeah. Of the proto rig, but one of the things he was saying was that   you you have to start from scratch for every new chip that you wanna support. And I kinda push back on that is   there's a lot more to a minor than just interfacing   with to a lot more to a minor firmware than just interfacing with the chips. And so once we have,   you know, an open source,   relatively modular system,   strapping on   new, you know, chips or new mining systems   to it,   it's not like easy easy, but it gets significantly   easier. Mhmm. Because Right. It turns out that,   interfacing with Stratum or Stratham v two and the pool and generating work and making the dashboard and controlling the fans and the power supply, that doesn't change necessarily when you get a new chip.  

Right. So we'll have a huge head start to have a platform   a firmware platform that we can build on to integrate these new things. I didn't understand his criticism about how, like, changing the hashboards  

[00:54:01] Unknown:

creates a naming problem   in his Twitter thread. Because, like, with with Proto, like, you just slide the hashboard out and put a different hashboard in there. Like, even if, like, it's not an exact match to the existing hashboards in there, the way they've designed their system, it it makes that irrelevant. Like, you can just   plug in whatever hashboard you have. So, like, let's say,   you know, you have I don't know. Like, each hashboard has   a 100 terahash to it.   And then   six months later, they have a 150 terahash version.   And one of your hash boards goes down. You can just unplug that,   order the newest, latest, and greatest hash board that has the same form factor,   and plug that in there. And now you're the same   minor system that you have is now,   netted   50 terahash increase.  



[00:54:56] Unknown:

That's a solvable problem. I mean, there's a trillion names for different NVIDIA GPUs, AMD graphics cards, motherboards.   The people that need to know what they're called know what they're called.  

[00:55:06] Unknown:

And the firmware needs to know, you know, what what are the details of this dashboard that's been attached, but   we can do that. I mean, they can do that.   You can actually do that on,   on Bitmain hashboards as well.  

[00:55:18] Unknown:

Overall, I thought his,   entire thread was just full of very flimsy criticisms.   It just it read more like a like a Bitmain intern   had, like, used AI to critique the proto announcement, and then he just generated a Twitter thread with it. Sorry. I I like I like Christian. Don't get me wrong. Same.   I'm not trying to, like,   bash him or, like, talk shit about him. I just thought that that thread was not done very well.  

[00:55:46] Unknown:

I like Christian too, but it felt like a I work at a jailbreak firmware company with a dev fee.  

[00:55:52] Unknown:

Yeah.   Coincidence.  

[00:55:55] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:55:58] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah.   The proto rig   and I mean, number one too, right? It kind of shakes up the the standard paradigm quite a bit, which I think that's that's what proto is going for. Right? Right. To shake this up because   the current the current solutions out there are   only serving one specific use case, and I would argue they're not even serving that very well. Right. You know? Facts.   They make they make the best chips. They do. Like,   so far, they're untouchable in the efficiency,   of their chips. Bit Bitmain.   But,   yeah, I mean, I've said this a million times now, but, like, there's more to a mining system than just the efficiency of the chips. And so Yeah. I I do like seeing people going after those other parts, those other pain points that exist.  



[00:56:50] Unknown:

Right.   Well and I guess, like, I'm just to the people that are critical of proto, like, what did they think a new entrant to this market was gonna look like?   You know? Like, what like, this is this is what disruption   looks like.   So I I don't know what people  

[00:57:09] Unknown:

expected. This is what I was saying last week. People are   content   with   the current   fuckery   of the industry   because they've it's it's been the way it is for a decade, and that's just the way it is. And I think it's hard for people   who aren't   feeling the daily pain points if you're trying to use it in a different application or use case or form factor.   They don't see a reason why anything should have to change. It's like they've developed Stockholm syndrome.  

[00:57:36] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:57:37] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. That was one of those the things about that thread that I didn't like was it was like, here's all these criticisms,   and that's why they're gonna fail.  

[00:57:46] Unknown:

Like Totally. Like There's no  

[00:57:48] Unknown:

fit. Like, there's room for different audiences. It it felt like We don't we don't have a lot of good options too. You think about the number two to Bitmain, what's minor, is started by the engineer from Bitmain   Right. Who made the s nine.   We we have,   BitDeer,   right, which is coming up hot with their miners. It started by the founder of Bitmain. Like Right. There's just not a lot of diversity,   coming into this this market,   you know. Right.   So  

[00:58:17] Unknown:

Which shout out to Canon for trying to make some home miners. Yeah. Like, it's cool to see them dabble with that stuff. It is. It is. They they do seem to have a little bit different take  

[00:58:27] Unknown:

on   what the miner   looks like. That's great. You know? And block has a pretty significantly   different take.  

[00:58:37] Unknown:

I wish they would, like, recognize that when   they're building something for a person's home,   every single   environment   those machines go into is going to be unique, and users really should have ultimate control   over the hardwares.   And, like, they should be open sourcing   their home line of products at a minimum.  

[00:59:06] Unknown:

Yes. I've been trying to hammer this home, which is   mining converged on this industrial form factor and industry.   I think naturally it makes sense. The competition, the difficulty increase drove it towards that   so much so that they're litter they're literally just little shoe boxes that you can't shove any more power through them because they they get too hot. Like, they're as dense as possible. But people forget that, and the BitX is a great example of this as will number one be.   You can, like, shatter the Bitcoin mining black box into any size. Right. Any custom size. You can't do that with your   OpenAI   Grok data center. You know, it makes sense to be standardized.  

You need a couple 100 megawatts.   But, like, Bitcoin doesn't have to be in these   these brackets of size, like these chunk brackets. It it scales down to any unit.  

[00:59:57] Unknown:

It really does. Yeah.   Because there's so many cool applications too. And there's no requirement. There's no actual requirement that all the chips, you know, be in a box and all those boxes be in the same building. Like, that that's   my judgment in a lot of ways.  

[01:00:16] Unknown:

Mhmm. Speaking of black boxes, I saw that sat stacking pleb made some cool   stuff for his stealth miner. Do you guys see that? He made a,   like, an intake filter that will slap on the side so you can quickly replace that as it gunks up with dust. And then he made a cool manifold that goes over the top of those four one twenty millimeter fans   to an eight inch duct. So it literally just looks like   a little buddy space heater with a duct like a like a chimney stack that you could put into anything, which is super cool. Nice. Yeah. That is super cool.  

[01:00:48] Unknown:

And he he released,   a lot of his designs open source too. Right? Yeah.   That's legit.  

[01:00:55] Unknown:

What are they? Three d printed?   Like, baffles and okay.  

[01:00:59] Unknown:

Well, in a full enclosure for a single hash board? Yeah. Single hash board. Oh, nice. Okay. It's a pretty cool design.  

[01:01:07] Unknown:

Oh, he's the the school bus avatar. Right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I know who you're talking about. Yeah, dude. That dude does some legit work.  

[01:01:15] Unknown:

Yes. He sent me one.   It's really cool. It's really well done.   And, yeah, again, I think it it opens up   a lot   of other possibilities for how you can use these hash boards for heat or, you know, mining and whatever situation you're in. Right.   I'm going to be,   trying to cure my tobacco plants with,   minor heat coming up soon. A true southerner.   Got to.  

[01:01:43] Unknown:

Do you grow tobacco? Do you grow your own tobacco? Well,  

[01:01:47] Unknown:

I   this is my first season trying it.   So, yeah, I'm learning. Like  

[01:01:53] Unknown:

That's awesome.   I I always wanted I always wanted to try growing my own tobacco.  

[01:01:58] Unknown:

It is,   it's, I guess, like growing anything. It's it's kinda challenging. These fucking caterpillars are just eating it all.   I'm not gonna spray any, like, digit nicotine. I'm not gonna spray any pesticides on there, so I'm just out there, like, picking off caterpillars every morning. But, Right.   Yeah. It's a it's an interesting process. And, you know, it needs to be cured at a higher temperature   for several days.   So that's a good application of mining heat.  

[01:02:28] Unknown:

Yeah. For sure.  

[01:02:33] Unknown:

And it'll be great to have Mujina eventually for these   industrial machines too.   Just going back to   a single board setup like what SASTAC and Club made because   there's gonna be people who will   build these retirement homes for old, depreciated,   10¢ on the dollar hash boards.  

[01:02:52] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:02:53] Unknown:

Yeah. Right. Good point.   Right. I think I think we're probably not too far from supporting sort of off the shelf bit Bitman hash boards with Magina. Right? Because,   you know, from the   the early development or the first Ember one, you know, those are Bitman chips.   Just happens to be more of them on a bit on a Antminer dashboard, but it doesn't change all that much as far as a a,   control   point of view.  

[01:03:21] Unknown:

What do you think go after those before the WatchMiner?  

[01:03:26] Unknown:

I don't know. I haven't really thought that far ahead, but   I I guess the reason the WhatsMiner   kept catching my attention was because Tyler kept posting pictures of the floor.   And it's like, in that hot Yeah. You go for the  

[01:03:39] Unknown:

the only single phase hydrominer.  

[01:03:42] Unknown:

Yeah.   Well, just for heat reuse purposes Yeah. The water the hydrominer seem like the place to be. Right?  

[01:03:50] Unknown:

What's minor would be interesting too because it's something that the other jailbreak   firmware companies have neglected   for years.  

[01:03:57] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:03:59] Unknown:

And they've got their devout followers, you know   Yeah. That swear by them.  

[01:04:05] Unknown:

Well, the good news is,   I I I don't have to be the only one working on Regina. So Right. That's right. The community can attack. That's pretty Everyone can everyone   can chase what they're interested in exactly.  

[01:04:20] Unknown:

That's how we win. Right? It's Yeah. Not overloading   Ryan with just crazy development requests, but,   building the system and put it out there because people are gonna come up with some stuff that we can't even imagine right now.   Like and it's gonna happen quickly.  

[01:04:37] Unknown:

Well, I'm just Someone's gonna oh, go ahead, Iko. I was just gonna say to that end, I mean,   you've got the the   first   Amber one prototype Yep. In your hands. And,   it's   we're Scott and I are gonna build one I'm gonna build one,   and Scott and I are gonna try to fry it.   And if that if that all goes well, then I'm gonna order enough materials to make, like, a 100 of these things.   And so between now and when I'm producing   the first 100,   you're gonna have a version of it of Magina ready  

[01:05:20] Unknown:

to control that those number ones for the people who receive them. Yeah. That's right. I'm on the clock now. So I've got this prototype.   So however long it takes you guys to build the first round of boards for people that want them,   that's that's my window of time to   get Regina working with number one so that   the day that hardware boards go out, there's actually software for them. So that and that'll be our grand   opening  

[01:05:49] Unknown:

Mhmm. Yeah. Release of the Magina project. Because the Magina GitHub repo is set to private right now. At the moment. So we just wanted to, like,   get all the foundation of Magina in place before we opened it up for,  

[01:06:04] Unknown:

Yeah. I wanna have a version that works,   that kind of is a good skeleton with Yeah. Some skin on it of, like,   here's the the vision for the whole thing. Like, have at it. Plug in here.  

[01:06:20] Unknown:

Well, I think having all those, like   like, the the frame of it in place will give   other developers   the, like, reference and direction they need   to, like, bring their ideas to the table and then and then kinda connect the dots. Like, okay.   I'm at a. C is where I wanna be, and, like, now I I know how to build b. Yeah.  

[01:06:43] Unknown:

So on day one,   which so we're only, like, a month   or two months away, I guess, how long it takes you to build boards.   So on day one, Logina will support number one,   double o.   And,   actually,   I guess this has been implied a lot, but I don't know if we've said out loud that you can also use a bit x gamma as a dashboard   or multiple bit x gammas as hashboards.   So we'll actually support two boards on day one.   Flex. Sort of just because of the way   the development   arc,   happened. Yeah.   But, you know, then yeah. So you'll be able to see very clearly in the software, like, oh, well, I wanna I wanna add a third dashboard. Well, okay. Here's the pattern. Like, there's already two of them. You can see how they plug in. Mhmm.  

[01:07:37] Unknown:

I wanna get I wanna get Regina working with, a JPRO dashboard   ASAP. So I'm I'm very excited to point that over. It won't be too hard, especially with the edit board connected to it because that's gonna look very similar to an ember one.   Yeah. Yeah.  

[01:07:55] Unknown:

I'm gonna make some edit boards too.  

[01:07:59] Unknown:

Yeah. Added board added board, I think, will be pretty pretty neat for the hackers. Right? For those who don't know, it's a tiny, tiny   little,   board that plugs into the data connector on your Bitmain dashboard   and has a USB port.   So it enables you to connect   any Bitmain dashboard,   probably all the way back to the s nine,   to   a USB control board,   of which,   Libre board is one, but a Raspberry Pi or anything could work. Yeah.   And allows you to communicate with it and send work to the a six and get responses back and things like that. So Yep. It just happens to be the same microcontroller   and the same firmware on there that is on the Ember one.  

So it'll look very familiar.  

[01:08:49] Unknown:

Is there also a control channel  

[01:08:51] Unknown:

for on that one? Yep. Yep. I two c. That's that's just conveniently,   how the bit man hash boards work as well.  

[01:09:02] Unknown:

Well, we should come up with a name   slash standard for this   hash the this protocol for talking to the hash boards.   Yes. Yes. I've been calling it BitX Raw, but   I think it at some point, it's gonna deserve its own name and specification   just to keep its I mean, we wanna keep it standard across all the dashboards,  

[01:09:25] Unknown:

to the extent possible, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. We can think about the architecture there a little bit because there, you know, there   will need to be some optionality there into how it works, especially for,   Intel chips, which need nine bit serial and,   yeah, other configurations.   But maybe there's   there's different versions of the firmware or different modes.   But, yeah, I totally agree. So, yeah, anytime you wanna think about that, let me know. Totally down.  

[01:09:58] Unknown:

We're,   we've we're over an hour,   and I wanna be respectful of the time we've booked here in the studio.   We've got about twenty more minutes,   but there's been a couple people coming in and out. So I know there's   some interest in people getting in here.   Do you guys wanna touch on any,   news items from the document or,   give   our hashers a shout out?  

[01:10:27] Unknown:

Sure. I mean, I think we organically went through most of the topics.   Okay. Scott, did you wanna hit on that one   open source,   pool implementation?  

[01:10:37] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was really neat. Someone,   using   the the datum client software   was able to reverse engineer the datum protocol by which the the sort of datum software running on your node communicates back with software running on ocean servers.   And they they made at least a, you know, first pass kind of beta implementation   of   essentially Ocean.   So this this would be kind of a neat way that you could spin up a pool, you know, assuming it's developed further, spin up a pool and run Datum clients connected to that to your own pool.  

[01:11:15] Unknown:

Oh, interesting.   Did they say did they say anything about the share accounting?  

[01:11:21] Unknown:

No. I think they the from what I gather, it looks just like they they just   reverse engineered the datum protocol.   So that a a stock datum client   can instead of talking to ocean servers can talk to this software and and get, you know, do the   send the the the work,   to the data client that way. But, you   know, I I've   I've told this to the Ocean guys several times and and been kind of critical of it, but the Ocean server software is not open source.   Correct. They said they they want to, but they they haven't yet.   So you can't   you can't spin up your own datum based pool currently.  

And I think that   that,   you know, has the way it is now has a bit of a centralizing effect and that if you want to be making your own block templates   and mining to them, you can't you can't use data.   So it'd be really cool to see people get this and start to screw around with it.   Obviously, it takes a lot of effort to spin up a a large pool with a large   proportion of the network cash rate so that you can   send payments out to your miners regularly. But   I don't know. Like,   that doesn't matter. Like, let's just let's just do this and, get started and see what people can can make with it. I mean,   this this kind of is parallel to what we're doing with with HydroPool.  



[01:12:51] Unknown:

Mhmm. Yeah. But, I was gonna say, I think the the idea is, you know,   to remove the   the barrier of,   having developer   skills as a requirement to spin up a pool. Like, anyone should be able to spin up a pool and just try it and be able to have some of their friends point Hashrate to them   and   and see what they come up with.   You know? And I know that, like, doctor Khan Colovis from CK Pool, he just made   a script for,   self hosting   of your own c k solo CK Pool.   He made that, like, as easy as, like, a one line command, and then it just runs and sets up your pool because he's also recognized that,   if   if you have to be a developer to spin up a pool,   you're we're kinda limiting ourselves to the ability for,   pools to exist in the face of authoritative   entities that are trying to stop them.  



[01:14:01] Unknown:

Right? Yes. 100%.  

[01:14:04] Unknown:

So if if we can just remove as much friction as possible from from spinning up a pool, then there will be nothing stopping pools,   several instances of pools existing.  

[01:14:17] Unknown:

I I think that's really important too. I mean, even from a developer point of view too. Because, like, if you're just gonna be like, okay. Yeah. I'm gonna spin up a hydro pool   right now, you do have that bootstrapping issue of how do you get enough hash rates such that you can pay out your miners,   on a regular basis. That's tough, but Right.   We just need more people looking at this, more people looking at this and figuring out how to do it differently.   Maybe there's a way to sort of syndicate   pools together   to combine, you know, the hash rate amongst different pools.  

I think that that would be really cool to look into. Yeah. We see a path forward with pizza pool.   Mhmm.  

[01:14:56] Unknown:

So  

[01:14:58] Unknown:

Yeah. Also a great idea. You know, like, the yeah. P two pool, I think it addresses   some of the other issues we have with pools, which is share accounting,   like  

[01:15:08] Unknown:

share Yeah. Centralized share accounting. It's in the actual Share accounting and then validating  

[01:15:12] Unknown:

or or verifying shares. Right? Because the way it works currently with   basically all pools   is you the miner sends your shares off and then it's just up to you to trust   them to pay you   based on those shares. Right. You can't verify how many shares were in the payout window.   So while you'll get a payment, you don't know if they're withholding from you, and there's no way to to verify that. Yeah. And so that's one of the things we're gonna open up an API  

[01:15:44] Unknown:

endpoint in hydro pool so that people who wanna monitor   what the pool is seeing and validating   Mhmm. They're gonna be able to   to to track to log all those shares for as as far back as they want and and compile their own database of shares and verify and validate   and keep us keep any any pool operators accountable.  

[01:16:09] Unknown:

Yeah. You know, and I was gonna   so I'll brainstorm out loud here. I was gonna talk to Junglee about this, but   as I was as I'm debugging, you know, Magina,   I was thinking it would be cool. You know, I'm combing through logs looking like what oh, was this share accepted? You know, would   you know, if if maybe   I could see Mujina generating, like, sort of a standard format   And if the pool's API was able to, like, give you a standard format that showed you   the same thing, like, you could compare.   Mhmm. Yeah. Like, I could compare I could compare what my miner says.   This is what the pool accepted with what the pool says the pool's accepted.  

I mean, I was thinking about this just for development debugging thing, but,   plugging that all the way through into some kind of accountability mechanism would be Yeah. Yeah. I that's feasible. That'd be kinda rad. And I I think it it's it's  

[01:17:05] Unknown:

also critical   in this, like, new paradigm where we're trying to   decentralize the pool operators.  

[01:17:12] Unknown:

Right? Mhmm.  

[01:17:13] Unknown:

So, like, you know, Ocean's got their reputation.   Brains has their reputation.   Like, all the mining pools have their reputations on the line, and they don't wanna get caught doing any nefarious activity because it means   the customers will point their hash rate elsewhere.   But, like, in this future where, like,   Eco's running a hydro pool instance and Scott's running a hydro pool instance and   Ryan and Tyler are pointing their hash rate, like, how how does Ryan and Tyler hold us accountable? And how do we how do we ensure that these, like,   garage band pool operators aren't,   shy you know,   screwing over their users? Yeah. I mean, ultimately,  

[01:17:56] Unknown:

p two pool aims to solve that Yeah. In a very fancy way. Right? But maybe early on, we could solve it in a less fancy way. Right. Just, hey. I have this ledger of what I think you've accepted.   And Yep. If I can check your ledger,  

[01:18:12] Unknown:

I wouldn't  

[01:18:14] Unknown:

Yeah. Because for us more than I did today. We didn't wanna bog down the hydro pool server with having to, like,   store these logs and, like like, how much   information does it persist for the windows and, like, how do we make that information accessible to clients who wanna see what's going on? Like, it's way better to just, like,   make the, like, live   share validation process accessible to anyone who wants to watch it instead of trying to burden the server with storing all that stuff. I mean, it'll need to store a little bit in case, like, the server crashes   and, you know, you need to reboot your server. You don't want all your workers to lose their shares. Right? So there's gonna need to be a little bit of persistence, but,   not not to the extent that like like, look at the corner Ocean has backed themselves into with their,   pool stack, like, they hold their workers' shares   forever.  

And, you know, it has,   to do with the way that tides works and the way that the window can shift depending on the network difficulty. But,   it's an enormous,   hardware requirement. And   if that's the,   like,   threshold for being a pool operator, then we're gonna see a lot less pool operators. So we need to get rid of these, like, high barriers.   And and I think just, you know, opening up   an endpoint is the easiest way to do that.  

[01:19:42] Unknown:

And and providing these open platforms that people who, like, oh, I'm gonna use, like, a, you know, a Merkle tree, like, accumulator to keep track of it. And just all sorts of like interesting ideas of of how you can do this share accounting and auditability.   People can try it out because you don't have to like first implement Stratum which is a pain in the ass. Right? You can just start building this stuff on top which I think is gonna be hugely popular. And from the firmware point of view too, right, I don't think any existing firmware gives you the ability to audit the number of shares that you've sent and at what difficulty.   Mhmm. You know, I think the dashboard shows you,   just the number of shares you've sent maybe since you power cycled it kind of thing, but   we're gonna need a little bit better than that,   if you really wanna be certain. And if a lot of money is on the line, well, you you really need to be certain.  



[01:20:32] Unknown:

Right.   Dylan in the chat says, imagine implementing this and finding out   all the minor manufacturers are peeling off small amounts of hash rate   industry in shambles.   And, yeah, I did you know, when when you've got, like,   what was it, amp bleed that was, like, phoning home to Bitmain? Yeah.   Like, you know, when when shit like that has already happened, like, I I think it's a a valid   concern and something you probably would only find, like, sniffing your network traffic   otherwise.  

[01:21:06] Unknown:

Yep. Yeah. My conspiracy theory is like,   why is Bitmain so hell bent on making sure you only use their firmware? Especially with crap firmware. Right? They would only sell more machines if they opened it up to other firmware manufacturers, so why are they trying to lock it down and continually   working to lock it down even further? Like the conspiracy is like,   are they trying to maintain   some sort of control,   you know, for a nefarious purpose or reserving the right to do a nefarious thing in the in the future? Because they certainly have done them in the past. Right.  

[01:21:37] Unknown:

Yeah. Follow the money.   Yeah. Right. I mean, look at, like, Google and and what they're doing with the Android platform or the Oh. Yeah. With their pixels and, the Android project. Like Right.   It dude, they they make so much money selling all the data they're harvesting off of you to advertisers   that, like, they don't want you   sideloading any applications on there, and they don't want you putting alternative   operating systems on their devices.   So they're, like, actively working to stop you from   running your hardware the way you wanna run it.  

[01:22:15] Unknown:

The whole, like, Internet connected hardware industry has just gone to shit because of that. Right? Where they realize they can make money selling your personal data and maintaining control over it like the air fresheners, right? They're   like, uh-oh, Dylan's bought like   a lot of air fresheners recently, like maybe we should sell this information to, I don't know, it's like a toilet paper,   a toilet paper seller or something.   There's some sort of, like, data to be gleaned from that. Exactly. Yeah.  

[01:22:45] Unknown:

A 100%.   Should I go through the hasher, Zico? Yeah. Let's do it.   Cool. On Link Coin, we got   Scott Offord from Open Hash Foundation and Scott Offord from Bitcoin Mining World and Schnitzel Fish Tank.   Fish Tank acts two is offline. Schnitzel, you gotta fix that. Oh, boy.   Schnitzel wall axes online at solo c k pool.   Rockpaper bitcoin.fm,   Bitcoin park Apollo.   Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself.   URLs don't have backslashes, so you don't have to say forward slash. Just saying slash for fuck's sake.  

[01:23:24] Unknown:

Never turn that one off.  

[01:23:26] Unknown:

Kuma is excited to meet y'all in Nashville.  

[01:23:30] Unknown:

Nice. Yep. Oh. We we met Kuma this morning. Yeah. No way. Let's go. Yep. Awesome.   Kuma survived.   Looks healthy. Happy. Let's go, Kuma.  

[01:23:40] Unknown:

Nice.  

[01:23:42] Unknown:

On public pool, we have hardestblocks.org,   Stalin's bid acts, and worker.   Good old Worker.   Love it. Never change.   And then on Ocean, we have Futurebit 1976,   Bible HODL, Forst,   Pizandy proof of print, Bitaxe one,   BitX, Fiat sucks. You guys do not. BitX, Fiat sucks. The money, not the car.   BitX,   ET, BTC,   Fiat sucks 76.   BitX, ET, BTC, Fiat sucks.   Virginia Freedom Tech sells BitAxes,   Hub, and Zirca say hash.  

[01:24:22] Unknown:

Oh, man. I love it when we get, like, commercials on our on our Hashers.  

[01:24:28] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:24:30] Unknown:

Small price to play for such a wide audience. You know? Yeah. Seriously. It is. 2  

[01:24:35] Unknown:

to 10,000,000.  

[01:24:36] Unknown:

That's right.  

[01:24:38] Unknown:

And growing.  

[01:24:39] Unknown:

Yep. I gotta put some of my miners on here.  

[01:24:42] Unknown:

Hell, yeah. Dude.  

[01:24:45] Unknown:

That's awesome.   Well, yeah, what's, what's in store for the rest of the day? Some socialization?  

[01:24:53] Unknown:

Yeah. There's gonna be some socializing.   I'm slaving over a hot computer upstairs trying to get my presentation done for ImagineIF.  

[01:25:01] Unknown:

Same.  

[01:25:02] Unknown:

And,   dude, like, I just I just we got a few minutes left. I gotta say, like alright. So Rod's for anyone who's not familiar, the whole imagine if platform is, like, these presentations that are ten minutes long.   So, like, imagine, like,   TED talk style   presentation, but condensed down to ten minutes.   And so   presenters like Tyler or myself, Scott, are you doing a presentation  

[01:25:29] Unknown:

or a panel? Just a panel.  

[01:25:31] Unknown:

Panel. And then are you doing okay. I'm just watching. You're watching. You're enjoying the show.   So for the   for the presenters, the challenge is, like, alright. Like,   come up with this amazing topic   and keep it broad enough to span an audience that's interested in   Bitcoin,   AI,   energy, and FreedomTech, and where all of those intersect.   And,   you know,   just blow the socks off the auditorium,   and you've got ten minutes to do it. And it's No problem. Rod like Rod likes to say,   imagination   loves constraint or creativity loves constraint. Yeah.   And he's certainly, like, pushing that to the limits with,   what he's asked the presenters to do here.  

And I've definitely been feeling the pressure the last couple weeks trying to get this Same. Presentation put together, dude. It's No pressure, guys. I got an email this morning. It was like, you know,  

[01:26:33] Unknown:

Odell,   Harry,   senator Blackburn,   senator Haggerty,   echo.   Yeah.  

[01:26:40] Unknown:

That's right. You'll be fine. You got this. Yes. Adam Back's gonna be there.  

[01:26:46] Unknown:

You did. I'm struggling to, like, memorize this because it's that TED Talk style format where, you know, you're not standing at a podium. You're supposed to be working the room. Yep. So that's Ten minutes is no joke. Trying to memorize, memorize, memorize.  

[01:27:00] Unknown:

Yeah. Tight. It's   crushing.  

[01:27:03] Unknown:

Well, I'm gonna have no cards.  

[01:27:05] Unknown:

You're you have no use of cards?  

[01:27:08] Unknown:

Yeah.   In case I forget. That's smart.  

[01:27:12] Unknown:

But if it were easy, everyone would do it. So you guys got this.  

[01:27:16] Unknown:

Yes. This is where you separate the boys from the men.  

[01:27:20] Unknown:

Yeah. Two five six foundation. You gotta make a good shelling, Ika.  

[01:27:24] Unknown:

Well, see and that's the thing. Like, I wanted to go up there and just talk about what we're building at the two fifty six foundation. That's very   compartmentalized   and   dense and easy for me to talk about because I'm in it day in day out. Mhmm.   But they were like, no. No. No. No. We need you to go more broad. Go go more broad. And we don't want anyone, like, shilling their own companies or foundations while they're on stage.   And I'm like, alright. Like, that's cool. But, you know, the more broad I go, the more I struggle with, like, finding the words to talk about   what I wanna talk about. And they're like, yeah. Talk about, like, you know, the freedom tech you use, like d Google phones and Bitcoin miners and VPN tunnels. And and I'm like,   dude, I have ten minutes. Like, what am I gonna say about these things in ten minutes? So Well, Ryan and I will will just be, like, yelling and cheering for five minutes solid, so you can just count on that.  

That's great.   Keep that up.  

[01:28:24] Unknown:

You gotta start with imagine if too. So you just gotta be like, imagine if you weren't a cuck. And  

[01:28:32] Unknown:

blah blah blah. And then just drop the mic and leave. Yep.  

[01:28:36] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's either, like, gonna be, like, a thirty second presentation   or, like, a twenty minute presentation, but ten minutes is   just hard to do.  

[01:28:50] Unknown:

We'll do well. I'm excited to see you guys tomorrow.  

[01:28:53] Unknown:

Yeah. Likewise.   Ditto. We'll be here holding the fort down.  

[01:28:57] Unknown:

Nice.   Cool. Should we wrap?  

[01:29:01] Unknown:

Alright. Well, we'll see you all later.  

[01:29:04] Unknown:

Thanks, everyone. Cheers, gents. See you tomorrow.