29 October 2025
092. Hashrate at Home: Zigbee Thermostats, Bitaxe Wins, and Dockerized Pools - E92
In this episode, we range from ice-cold mornings and sunny Colorado skies to a deep dive on home mining, heat reuse, open hardware, and sovereign home automation. We recap getting featured in Forbes on Heat Punk projects and how mainstream coverage is finally grokking mining-as-heat, Canon’s heating-first designs, and Bitmain’s market dominance risks. We share real-world progress: integrating Canaan home miners with Home Assistant via APIs and Node-RED, using Zigbee sensors for room-aware thermostatic control, solar and TOU-aware automations, and the vision for a sovereign “miner control hub” box built on Raspberry Pi 5. We get nerdy on RISC‑V vs ARM, open firmware, and the Libre Board + Mujina roadmap, with detours through customs-destroyed SMD parts, packaging HydroPool for Docker, and the power of public, self-hosted pools after a solo-Block win with a NerdQAX. We also cover privacy and the surveillance creep: doorbells, cars, app signing, and why self-hosted tools (Pi-hole, PFsense, Mullvad, Signal, Proton/Tutanota) matter. We discuss HPC pivots by large miners, grid vs. heat-reuse economics, Canaan’s momentum in home heating, and the imminent Telehash on HydroPool with StartOS packaging on deck. Plus, the Stealth Miner enclosure, Bitaxe-powered heat projects, and shoutouts to the open-source crew making sovereignty practical at home, one sensor, miner, and Docker container at a time.
[00:00:01]
Unknown:
Welcome to pod two fifty six episode 92.
[00:00:07] Unknown:
Damn. 92.
[00:00:09] Unknown:
On a 100. My gosh. 100. How's it going, guys? Not a whole lot. How are you doing?
[00:00:17] Unknown:
I'm doing quite well. Happy to be here. Happy to see y'all.
[00:00:21] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
How's, how's weather in your neck of the woods?
[00:00:25] Unknown:
It's getting cold. You got a hoodie on. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting cold. Yep. It's, really cold. Winter is coming. We were in the twenties this morning in Colorado. Who are we? 28.
[00:00:37] Unknown:
Buddy. Fahrenheit?
[00:00:39] Unknown:
Yeah. That's not right. Now it's 55.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Sunny. I love it. I would take zero degrees in Colorado over 32 degrees in Nashville any day of the week. Any day of the week.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
No humidity, and the sun keeps you nice and toasty. Yeah, bro.
[00:00:57] Unknown:
In Nashville, like, when it's cold and the sun, like, comes out from behind the clouds, it doesn't change anything. Like, you're still just miserably cold, like, and cutting to the core
[00:01:07] Unknown:
sucks. I remember in college, I I had a roommate from Palo Alto, and we would I was up in Wisconsin, and he would get, like, bad seasonal depression. It's just dark and gray for seven months. And I always thought he was being a bitch. And then I moved to Colorado, and I was like, wow. This is amazing. Yeah. Ugh. Colorado is cold AF. Yeah. But it's sunny. You're Californian. You know?
[00:01:35] Unknown:
Yeah. I grew up by the by the coast. It doesn't get that cold.
[00:01:39] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:01:41] Unknown:
Was it humid out there though?
[00:01:45] Unknown:
In California? Yeah. No. Never. Not even one single day for my entire life.
[00:01:51] Unknown:
Wow. I mean, it doesn't happen.
[00:01:56] Unknown:
The first time I experienced humidity, it was really weird. Like, it was raining. I'm like, oh, dang. It's gonna be cold. I was actually going to Australia for the first time. I, like, you know, we're landing, and I'm like, oh, it's raining. Like, bummer. It's gonna be cold. And I got off the plane. It was like, what? You could, like, bite the air? Like, I I wasn't even familiar with the concept if you could be.
[00:02:19] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's rough. Muggy.
[00:02:22] Unknown:
I don't know. I like it now. It's it's humid AF in the South. I kinda like it. It's novelty still, though.
[00:02:30] Unknown:
What's been, going on this week, fellas?
[00:02:34] Unknown:
You tell us, mister Celebrity being featured in Forbes magazine. I saw that. I was like, man, I know that guy. Shout out to Roger.
[00:02:45] Unknown:
Met him, got to chat with him quite a bit, in Nashville a couple weeks back at the HRF event. And, really cool guy, really keen interest and a lot of knowledge on the mining industry and a lot of the history on these big miners. And so after chatting about the heat punk stuff, he just called me after the fact and said he was writing an article, and it would go in Forbes. And I was like, no way. So we chat for thirty minutes, and he featured a handful of heat punk projects, which is cool. Colin Sullivan from Mint Green up in Vancouver. Yep. They have a really cool project working with the mayor to get this big community pool heated, that's closed for half the year because it's too cold and they can't afford to heat it. And the proposal out for that project, more of like a at a municipality level is to, hey. We can afford to do this if we do it this way, which is really cool to see. And just talking through I I liked how Roger framed it too. It's like all the FUD. This kind of eliminates the FUD. Mhmm. It doesn't use too much energy if you're gonna buy heat anyways, which we've been saying. So it was cool to get featured. Good to see that narrative making its way into the headlines.
[00:03:56] Unknown:
Yeah. And I saw he gave, Heatbit a shout out as well. Yes. Of course. Of the two fifty six Foundation.
[00:04:05] Unknown:
Indeed.
[00:04:06] Unknown:
And, who else did he give a shout? There was somebody else.
[00:04:11] Unknown:
Yeah. There was Proto was mentioned. Oh, yeah. You mentioned Proto
[00:04:15] Unknown:
Yeah. Coming coming in hot with their ASIC chips disrupting Bitmain and their proprietary shenanigans.
[00:04:24] Unknown:
Super cool. I mean, I think, yeah, we're we're getting the info out there, the efforts, all of our 10,000,000 listeners on this show. Right? That's right. The narrative is starting
[00:04:35] Unknown:
to shift. The winds of change are in the air. Can you feel it, Scott?
[00:04:40] Unknown:
I can feel it. I I was very excited to see in that article that Roger touched on sort of the the problem with, you know, Bitmain's dominance and them not making any equipment for for, heat reuse. Right. That was cool. I think that's an important point. In a mainstream platform too. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:59] Unknown:
Yeah. And he contrasted it with Canon who's doing,
[00:05:04] Unknown:
like, designs specifically for heating applications. Right? And I've heard that's been a huge success for them. I was chatting with Will Foxley. He was here this week from BlockSpace Media, and he was telling me because he tracks a lot of the the mining revenue and the publicly traded companies and whatnot. That's what he's in tune with. And it he said it was something like a third of their revenue, the home mining stuff, which is wild.
[00:05:28] Unknown:
No kidding. Yeah. That's wild.
[00:05:32] Unknown:
Yeah. Is is, Canon, Canaan, they're one of these companies that makes a lot of different yeah. They make, a bunch of different semiconductors, not necessarily Bitcoin mining. Correct. Yeah. I wonder, is that third of their revenue like the Bitcoin mining department? Or is it That's a good question.
[00:05:51] Unknown:
Yeah. Because I also know they have, like, Canon US, which I think is their business for repair. I'm not exactly sure how it's all broken down. A lot of these companies, it's been, an interesting learning experience for me. They're they're, like, have all these nested structures, and it's much more complicated than you think it is at face value. Gotta hustle to survive.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
I was I was looking for a, for a different processor to make, like, a small Linux board, like, a control board type thing. And I landed on this very cheap, Linux, you know, processor chip, a, an ARM, Cortex a chip called Sophgo, s o p h g o. And I was like, man, that's really cheap. Like, this looks cool and there's, like, some designs and information about it. And, then I realized that SoftGo is, basically, like, embargoed. You can't import it into The United States because they, work with Huawei, and I believe it's a subsidiary of Bitmain.
[00:07:04] Unknown:
Interesting.
[00:07:05] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:07:08] Unknown:
I heard some crazy thing through the grapevine this week about Bitmain, which I just put in the notes before the show. But, I heard that their break in period happens to be exactly as long as it takes them to make the money back that it cost them to build the machine.
[00:07:25] Unknown:
Of course.
[00:07:26] Unknown:
And then they sell them at 100% profit. Right. Because they already made their money back to make it.
[00:07:34] Unknown:
So Because they're more efficient than all the other miners
[00:07:38] Unknown:
out there on the network, you mean? Yeah. No one's got the s 20 threes yet. Right. Couple people, but Yep. I mean, what other product can you do that with? Right? These are money printers. And so and if you make them, you have this strategic advantage of what you do with them before you ship them out. Right.
[00:07:57] Unknown:
Who has the s 23? Tell me. I want one I want access. I I wanna You got a part of one. Person besides Bitmain. Yeah.
[00:08:10] Unknown:
That's so wild. I believe it. Yeah. I believe it too.
[00:08:15] Unknown:
They're, they're they're dirt bags, dude. Like, who's who's that chick that we met during the HRF event? Can we talk about what she's working on? Or is that, like, should we not spoil the surprise?
[00:08:34] Unknown:
I guess I'm not sure which project you're talking about. Yeah. There were so many cool people.
[00:08:39] Unknown:
She was sitting, across from you when
[00:08:44] Unknown:
you Yes. When we had dinner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can talk about that. It's coming out. Isa, Isabela Santos, who does a lot of cool work, with Bitcoin magazine and those short form videos documenting happenings in the Bitcoin space. And I think it was really cool. Iko and I were sitting with her at at a at a dinner. And, when we started diving into a lot of the stuff we talk about on this show, she was just mind blown. No idea. And I think that's a a common story for many Bitcoiners. They're just not in tune with it, which makes sense. Mining's kinda out there. Not every Bitcoiner it's already hard to do at the house. Right? It's getting easier. But and then to actually be in the weeds and and understand why things are the way they are. So we've been working with her, giving her some info. There was a big group chat over the past weekend. Thanks for all the insights, Scott, and Rob, and Nico, and everybody was helping out. But she's put together quite the narrative, which I'm really excited to see see come out. I was so excited to see that. Like, this is gonna be cool. Any any one of these sort of,
[00:09:46] Unknown:
I don't know, just, like, overlaps between the Bitcoiners and the miners, like, kinda bringing them together
[00:09:54] Unknown:
is, is pretty exciting for me. Yeah. And the the conversation came up because she was asking, like, is the are are large miners really a cabal? And is this, like, really an issue, like the two fifty six foundation claims? And so we started talking about, well, yeah, like, Bitmain has 90 plus percent market dominance. They've been known bad actors in the past, and we brought up the examples of amp bleed and ASIC boost. And and you could just see the wheels start turning inside her head. And and then the idea came up to, like, turn it into, like, a short form video to talk about that history. And I think it's a I think it'll be a banger. Total banger. Yeah.
[00:10:38] Unknown:
Yeah. That's gonna be sweet.
[00:10:42] Unknown:
Going back to Canan, you had, you've got a couple of their units integrated at the space. Yes. And you've been working on some home assistant documentation. Mhmm. What's going on there?
[00:10:57] Unknown:
What's going on is Canon has public APIs, which are awesome, for their home miners. So the Avalon q, which is the desktop tower looking one, the mini three, which is the baseboard looking one, and then the the nano, which is a a little desk one, like a 140 watts. Kinda looks like the brains mini miner. And and they have public documentation on their APIs. And so that's where we went in and said, okay. Well, let's integrate these into the smart home, IoT, thermostats, automation, schedules, all this fun stuff. And Dylan, who's, my cofounder at Xergi, he's a wizard at Home Assistant. He's put in his ten thousand hours.
And so we were able to get control in connection to all of our smart home stack even though the canons aren't all in PyAsync. So I was messaging you guys a little bit about this because the PyAsync library, that that package, that service is fantastic in Home Assistant with HASMiner from Schnitzel, where you literally just get the the integration. It's a plug in for Home Assistant from the community store. So you'd get you'd go from the GitHub repo, and then you put in the IP address and it identifies. It kind of fingerprints the miner, and you answer a couple other questions like what's the max wattage and what's the minimum wattage of this thing. Right? You click enter, and it brings in all the stats, and it lets you send commands. Not all commands, but, the the the canons weren't weren't built out yet. Or I think the Mini three was, but there's a mistake in it. I need to, do a pull request or talk to Brett.
It thinks that the maximum hash rate the unit's off. So it thinks the maximum hash rate is 40, 40,000,000,000,000 terahash instead of 40 terahash.
[00:12:46] Unknown:
Awesome.
[00:12:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So it it doesn't work properly, but that's where Dylan was able to do all this with, Node RED, which you can think of like block diagrams for any automations. So instead of, a YAML file, which is Home Assistant standard or shell commands, you can just kind of create block diagrams. One grabs the IP. One sends a command to turn on and off. And so we documented how to do this with Node RED, which we think is kind of this middle ground as, like, an a user intuitive way. If you don't have a lot of development experience, you don't wanna actually write lines of code. We just teach you how to build these blocks so you can push commands to the miners, send out the API variable commands. And so that's step one. Step two is gonna be reading back the statistics from the Canon, and then you're off to the races. And you can create dashboards, connect to thermostats, all this other fun stuff. And it made me think. I I put a tweet out, and I was messaging you guys a little bit about, like, the happy medium between Node RED and PyAsync and shell commands because you can kinda skin this cat many ways on how to talk to these things.
And I think that, you know, for smart home devices, the ideal is it's like, I love HASMiner and Piasek. You just put in the IP and you tell it what miner it is and you're done. And it it gets all the right variables. Like, I know the canons have eco and super. I know they have heating mode and and non heating mode, like mining mode, where it responds to a temperature or it doesn't. So there's there's unique things, unique variables, unique API calls to these machines that, like, an s 19 doesn't have. Right? And so that's where it's gonna be awesome to get more contribution and management, and and maintainers on PyASIC, ASIC RS, things like that because that becomes easier. But right now, it's also helpful to just teach people how to do this either in block diagram with with Node RED or, shell. I wanna document how to do it, like, just with shell commands and and YAML scripts where you can just copy and paste a line of code, and then you have a little integration for that miner.
[00:14:52] Unknown:
What kinda commands are you sending it? Like like temperature, adequate, turn off, temperature, too cold, turn back on?
[00:15:00] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So our automations like, the first thing we did was, it comes with this heating mode where it responds to has the the mini three, the baseboard one has two temperature sensors. It has a temp sensor at the exhaust, which is around a 135 degrees Fahrenheit. That's the warm air coming out of it. And then it has a temp sensor on the intake air, which is right beneath it. And this is like a small device. It's maybe four inches wide, five inches tall, and 30 inches long. And so those temp sensors are, like, literally four inches apart. And so when you're trying to command your room temperature to be 70 degrees Right.
The air right under the miner is not actually indicative of the air in the room. And so literally behind me on this glass wall, we just have a little ZigBee radio temperature sensor in the corner, which is the opposite corner from the minor, which is out of the shot. And so we just linked those two together, and we said, actually, instead of responding to the temperature underneath you, respond to the on the other side of the room, and it makes this room much better to control. But we've done a bunch of other fun automations like bringing in our real time solar flux, our PV wattage, our time of use billing, and real time hash price and hash value.
And we told it all the modes and all the stuff that Piasek would say, here's what you need to know about this miner. And in that automation, it determines in real time when it's free to mine Bitcoin, and it turns on and off then. That's awesome. A bunch of cool
[00:16:36] Unknown:
stuff. Hell, yeah. You're getting that space all wired up. All wired up for sure.
[00:16:41] Unknown:
We've got, like, 500 Terahash possible online right now. Dude, nice. Yeah. That's great. That's fun. This is It is fun. Makes me think
[00:16:54] Unknown:
there could be some value in, like, a, like, a miner control platform, but not just for, like, managing a fleet of miners that are, you know, grid connected or whatever, but for, like, you know, managing all the miners as a part of this heating or, you know, your excess energy mining strategy, like a very versatile platform that obviously can communicate with all the miners over PyASIC, but then also it has, you know, baked in the ability to communicate with these home automation protocols and easily add external sensors. Yeah. It seems like Node RED would be a good way. So so you said you can make these home assistant plug ins with Node RED. Is that that's what you're doing?
[00:17:46] Unknown:
You could do anything with Node RED. You can you can think of it as another way to create your your automations, your linking things together. So, like, in that stuff we documented yesterday, it's literally just grab the IP, put that in a variable. Whatever button I press, it takes that I it takes the command I wanna send for that button, and it pushes it to that IP address. Yeah.
[00:18:14] Unknown:
Man, this would be a really cool box. Like, something that Yeah. You know, has the basics for communicating with, obviously, all your miners, but your, like, solar system charge controllers, with your, energy provider your electricity provider's API for pricing information.
[00:18:30] Unknown:
Oh, yeah.
[00:18:31] Unknown:
Right? Like Yeah. The the sort of oh, you got it right there. This is the box. What is that?
[00:18:39] Unknown:
This is what we're using, and we're trying to document and package all this so that you could just buy this. And so Looks like a Raspberry Pi in there. It is a Raspberry Pi five with an expansion board for NVMe. And then the other part of the expansion board is this radio antenna. This is just a Texas Instruments, ZigBee antenna. Okay. And so ZigBee is not Wi Fi. It has pretty good range through the house. And the ZigBee devices, like, that little temperature sensor, it literally just looks like an AirTag wall wart, and it lasts, like, three years battery.
[00:19:13] Unknown:
Oh, wow. What frequency is ZigBee?
[00:19:17] Unknown:
I don't know. Maybe Dylan's listening and will chime in in the chat.
[00:19:22] Unknown:
Does it have a good range and, like, it Like, 200, 300 meters. It's pretty good. I think CP is, like, that 900 megahertz ISM band in The US at least. Oh. Do they have to register with the FCC? I was wondering about that. No. You don't. So ISM bands is this sort of frequency band that has been allocated by the FCC for as long and as long as you stay under this power limit, it's free to use it for whatever you want. Kind of like 2.4 gigahertz is for Wi Fi and Bluetooth. Yeah. So there there's a whole range of stuff. Like, LoRa also operates in that 900 megahertz ISM band.
It's, yeah, I don't know. Like, the it's a little token from the FCC of, like, okay. Yeah. Just use this for whatever you want. Yeah. I think Z Wave is another option.
[00:20:12] Unknown:
This this airspace is is freedom territory.
[00:20:16] Unknown:
Yeah. It's kind of it's this this little token. Right? You know, the the the airwaves are supposed to be this public property, and the FCC manages it. And they have you know, you look at the whole spectrum and how they have it allocated. It's kind of pathetic. Pathetic. But, yeah, we just get these little slices. Yeah. Okay. Fine. You can use that. It reminds me of, like, if you've ever gone to, like, a Democratic or,
[00:20:39] Unknown:
Republican National Convention, like, out front, they'll have this, like, gated and walled and barricaded zone, and it's called, like, the free speech zone Oh, okay. Where, like, if you wanna, like, hold signs or, like, do any sort of, like, protesting or assembly, like, that's your designated space to do it in. Yeah. It's absolutely that.
[00:21:02] Unknown:
It's not niche, though. Like, what I thought was cool is, whoever lived in my apartment before me, my house that I'm renting, they, they left a bunch of ring devices all throughout motion sensors and cameras, and I took them down. I didn't know if they were watching me, and I realized they were all they're all Zigbee and Z Wave devices. Okay. But they talk to the little Ring box server that you get in your house, which puts everything back on ring the company's servers. Mhmm. Where this is that, it's literally the same products. I can with this in my house, I can buy all the zinc, the ring sensors and just have them talk to this with the ring plug in in Home Assistant.
And I'm just circumnavigating talking to their servers,
[00:21:50] Unknown:
which is awesome. That's great. Are you finding it has, like, good reliability, like, in proximity to, like, hard surfaces, like the glass or brick walls or upstairs to downstairs?
[00:22:02] Unknown:
I actually had a, like, a dead spot in my house, in the basement and, like, plaster walls. And I just bought a little wall wart, extender so you can have more antennas and and make your mesh network super easy the setup super easy.
[00:22:20] Unknown:
Is that, I'm not familiar with the wall wart extender. Is it similar to, like, the Wi Fi device that, like, sends the Wi Fi signal through your electrical lines? Where you, like, you, like, plug the box into, like, one outlet and it, like, uses your electrical lines to transmit from, like, your router.
[00:22:42] Unknown:
I don't think that's how it's working. I just plug it in, and it has a little antenna on it. And I think it's just talking to this antenna as the master, and it becomes a slave. Okay. But as far as I know,
[00:22:53] Unknown:
ZigBee is a a mesh networking protocol. So you could imagine having a repeater, that just joins the the mesh network. I see. Okay. It can sort of, like, extend that mesh. So it can it can relay packets through it without necessarily having to add any of its own data. But, you know, any any mesh node can extend the network. It just adds another hop.
[00:23:18] Unknown:
It's so cool. I mean, I know Dylan's got it set up too where if he has his windows open at his house with little window sensors that are ZigBee, it turns off the minors because why waste that or turns off the air conditioning if he if he's just opening a window. And so he doesn't have to go in and change anything. Like, he just opens a window and his air conditioning knows, oh, it must be nice outside. I'll turn off. And so the world is your oyster. And I think if we can productize this and make it easier with miners as IoT home gadgets, like, this is the future. It's gonna be awesome.
[00:23:50] Unknown:
I really like that that add on you have for that that box there that adds the the ZigBee protocol to it. That's that's really slick. I feel like that opens up a lot because there's so many ZigBee peripherals and things you can get that that will plug into that.
[00:24:10] Unknown:
They're cheap too. You can buy a 100 of them for a $100 on AliExpress.
[00:24:16] Unknown:
Nice. Well, it's an open it's an open protocol too, which is Yeah. Is good. So it's like you wanna make something that works on that, you just you need to follow the protocol, but you can just do it.
[00:24:27] Unknown:
Exactly. I'm working on getting all the, all of my incandescent light bulbs because I don't want the LED brain frying in my house. Dude, we've been doing the same thing, like, trying to get rid of all the LED lights. Yeah. But I can put my little outlet. I have just little Zigbee outlets, so I can control the the incandescent lights with Home Assistant. So it's like it's a smart light bulb, but it's not smart.
[00:24:53] Unknown:
Like, it makes it dimmable? Oh, you mean, like, you can turn it on and off. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.
[00:24:59] Unknown:
Sick.
[00:25:00] Unknown:
It is. It's really addicting.
[00:25:03] Unknown:
So there's a the the Espressif that makes the, microcontroller that's in the BitX, just came out with a new one called the c we use the s p 32 s three right now. They came out with a new one called the c six. It's it's neat in a lot of ways. It supports, five gigahertz Wi Fi, which is a nice touch. It also has a risk five, processor core in it. Oh. Cool. Yeah. But it also supports ZigBee. Wow. So that that could be pretty neat to, play around with.
[00:25:37] Unknown:
What's the deal with RISC five? It's like a open source processor
[00:25:42] Unknown:
design or Yeah. Protocol? It's it's a, yeah, it's a processor design. Sort of historically, there's like Intel, which is you know, they have an instruction set, meaning all the commands that control the processor, what the code gets compiled to. And Intel is it's closed. Right? Only Intel can make Intel chips and and AMD, they've, like, licensed it. For Is that x 86 in ARM? That's x x 86. Gotcha. So ARM is is different in that ARM just designs the processor, and and designs the instruction set. So anyone can well, not anyone. People license that, design from ARM.
ARM doesn't make any chips. They just, license it to people like Apple that make the, the, you know, the processors in iPhones and MacBooks. They license it to tons of people. It's also in microcontrollers, but it's not open. So you have to, like, you know, go to ARM and sign a big fat check with them and deal to get access to it and be able to make processors that are ARM cores. And they also charge a licensing fee. So I I I've heard even in, like, little microcontrollers, it can be, like, a dollar per chip that you sell, licensing fee. Woah. And it's it's totally locked down.
So RISC five is a is a project that's been around for a long time, but it's just starting to gain steam now, I think. And it is an open standard. So, yeah, it's the the design of it is open source, sort of like what digital logic you need to implement to make a processor like this as well as the instruction set. So, yeah, it's permissionless. Like, anyone can just grab this and go fab a processor or, you know, make compilers for it. And a lot of a lot of people are starting to do that. It's starting to happen. I I feel like it hasn't hit the the mainstream yet, but it's coming. You see more and more, you know, chip, semiconductor companies making chips that have RISC V cores in there.
It's got good Rust support as far as compilers go, of course, c and all those things. But, yeah, it's pretty exciting. The ESP 30 twos in the past, you know, they're the the cheapest, like, Wi Fi chips you can get. And to make them cheaper, they have avoided ARM, which is what everyone else does. So for a long time, they were using this other esoteric processor core design called Tensilica. It is just like you know, it's just a cheaper one, but it's not open and you still have to license it. So I think the kind of people that were in that realm, like Espressif, are just shoo ins for going to risk five. Mhmm. Because they're they're trying to make it, you know, cheaper.
So it makes sense that Espress is switching over. There's lots of other companies are doing it. There have been sort of projects to make, like, Raspberry Pi level, processors based on RISC V, and you can get them. They're still a little bit iffy, hard to get, and not quite as performant as Arm, but I think it's getting there. I've seen a lot of progress in that realm. So it's it's a neat project.
[00:29:13] Unknown:
I know it's something Start nine is super interested in, which is cool.
[00:29:17] Unknown:
I mean, you don't wanna be reliant on having to get some license from Arm to to make your processors.
[00:29:26] Unknown:
Well and I think there's there's, like, persistent criticism in especially in the Bitcoin space among, like, open source projects where if there's reliance on, like, an ESP 32, it's closed. You don't know exactly what it's doing. And, therefore, if you have something critical that that system is controlling, you you're not able to truly verify everything that it's doing. And so there's an element of trust there. And so I think it's sounds like and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like, you know, with RISC five, this could potentially mitigate some of those critiques. Right?
[00:30:21] Unknown:
I think so. I think so. Because when you have proprietary processor cores like that, you always a lot oftentimes, you end up with these things called binary blobs Right. Which are like some bit of code, from the the maker of the processor that you need to run-in order to get all the features out of it. And, in the past, those have been closed sourced. Like, they're they're just provided to you as a binary. And that makes it it makes it really hard to know exactly everything that's going on or to change it if you need different functionality. So I think the trend with risk five is to have those binary blobs not be close source, not be binaries, to have it to have it more
[00:31:07] Unknown:
open. Could you have a risk five ASIC?
[00:31:12] Unknown:
Or is that different? Like a mining ASIC? Yeah. Mining ASICs don't need CPUs. Right. They just do one thing. Yeah. They just they just do shot Your control board, though, could use The control board. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. And and there
[00:31:26] Unknown:
are RISC five, compute modules that adhere to that two one hundred pin standard that we implemented on the Libre board. Mhmm. And so from, like, day one, that was something that Scott had brought up with Libre board. Like, you know, we shouldn't box users into telling them which processor they have to use on their Libre board. It it should be standardized so that they could bring a RISC five compute module. They could, bring x 86. They could bring ARM, whatever it is. My dog's drinking water in the background. I don't know if you can hear that or not. But
[00:32:08] Unknown:
The yeah. That's that's really exciting because the the processors on on, like, Raspberry Pi and on these compute modules, they're different than, like, a microcontroller that might be in the Bittaxe. They're they're much more complicated processors. You need to have fast RAM associated with it. You need to be able to access large amounts of storage. They have complicated power domain structures. So having something like the compute module, it it has everything you need on one board. So it's kinda like plug and play. And and it's if they adhere to that standard that Iko was talking about, you could just swap it in without having to change any underlying hardware. So I think that's particularly exciting.
[00:32:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm stoked. That'd be sweet.
[00:32:56] Unknown:
Yeah. Was it we were looking at, there's a couple companies that make RISC five compute modules, that Milk. Yeah. Milk was one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They have a lot of interesting products. Milk milk. I think Milk v yeah. It's they they have a lot of cool things. Seems like they're kinda they're working on new stuff. We're starting to get more and more performant risk five based Mhmm. Modules.
[00:33:25] Unknown:
Yeah. Speaking of LibriBoard, Schnitzel has been globetrotting, but we're very close to submitting the PCB designs to the manufacturer to get our prototype boards created and then sent to us. So, that should I think that'll be happening this week.
[00:33:53] Unknown:
So yeah. Can't wait to get my hands on one of those. Dude, yeah. I'm stoked too.
[00:33:59] Unknown:
I just gotta say, like, one of my boxes of surface mount device components got destroyed by customs. No. No. Dude, for real. No. Yeah. I can show you the screen the screenshot of the tracking. It's like, your box has been imported. Your Your box has been transferred to the next facility. It's now at customs. It has been flagged by customs. There's documents missing. Your box has been destroyed by customs.
[00:34:29] Unknown:
Like, it wasn't like they dropped it or stepped on it. It was like No. Something didn't match, so they just, like, incinerated it? Like, what? Yeah.
[00:34:37] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:34:38] Unknown:
So It was very harsh. Like, how how did it get
[00:34:42] Unknown:
Papers, please.
[00:34:44] Unknown:
So I think I here's my I don't know exactly what happened, but here's my speculation. That happened around the October, like, during the October. I was just idly waiting for the package to show up and didn't really track or didn't even look at the tracking number until, like, the third week in October, like, last week. And I was like, and that's when I noticed that something had gone wrong. And I think what happened was that they reached out to the shipper, the person I bought the components from. And because it's a Chinese company, they either had a communication barrier or just didn't respond to customs email at all or their, whatever way they customs tried contacting them, phone call, email, letter. I don't know.
I think they probably got no response. And then they're like, okay. Well, you know, if I'm the customs agent, I'm like, okay. I have this box. We don't have what we need to process it. We can't let this go because of our procedures. We tried initiating contact. It's been fourteen days. We haven't heard anything. Send it to the incinerator. I, like, I think I think that's what happened. And so by the time I got in the loop, I was like, okay. Like, box destroyed. That's a red flag. So, dude, I was on the phone for three hours and finally got a hold of a UPS agent and talked to them about what was going on.
They sent me the form that was missing and said that the shipper needs to fill out that form, send it to customs, and then initiate a claim with UPS to investigate if the package is still recoverable or not. And so then I had to go talk to the shipper and be like, yo, there's something wrong with the shipment. Thanks for letting me know, by the way. Yeah. Here's this form. Here's what UPS said. Here's what you need to do. And then they got back to me, and they're like, yeah. It's been destroyed. We'll give you a refund. So they sent me a refund, but they didn't give me my fee for putting the components on their reel, which was $40, and they didn't give me back the taxes.
And I'm just like so now I'm, like, contacting them again. Like, yo, like, no sale occurred here. I don't know if you noticed, but I gave you money. You gave me nothing. There was no transaction completed. Therefore, I'm not paying you the taxes. You need to give me that tax money back too. And the real fee money it should be anyways, they owe me, like, $90, but I'm like
[00:37:31] Unknown:
So is this LCSC? Yeah. It is. Is there any option to just be, like, send it again and include the form this time, you guys? Like well This can't be the first time they've sent parts to The US. Like Yeah. There so I can order it again. However,
[00:37:48] Unknown:
I'm monitoring the situation to see if they're gonna do the right thing or not. Because if they don't give me my $90 back, I'm not gonna want to continue to do business with them. Because it's a indicator to me that one, they're not gonna do the right thing when I trust them to. And two, they're not gonna take corrective they're not gonna take all the corrective measures they need to to fix it if they do make a mistake. So I'm I'm just like, everything's paused right now, and I'm just waiting for them to see what they do.
[00:38:22] Unknown:
I would I would suggest that as as much as it sucks, the easiest method to to get this resolved might be, like, just send it again. I know you don't trust them, but I have heard from several people that it's it's very hard to get money back from China. They don't like to do that. Yeah. I've been much more apt to just send the stuff again. Well, they they sent me most of the refund already. There's just this last $90 that's missing. Okay.
[00:38:51] Unknown:
So, I mean, yeah, they did. They were like, okay. We'll issue you a refund. I'm like, yeah. I'll believe that when I see it. Yeah. And then surprisingly, I was like, oh, shit. They did send me my refund. But wait. It's not quite the same amount what happened there. And I looked at the invoice and was able to figure out what exactly which line items exactly they held on to and that they didn't refund. So I've reached out to them to let them know that that that's, you know, missing. There's, like, $90 missing here that they need to follow through with. So
[00:39:25] Unknown:
These are all little electronic components that go on the board? Yeah. So these are, like, the resistors,
[00:39:30] Unknown:
capacitors, little all the little things. So
[00:39:36] Unknown:
What what was the form? Like, what
[00:39:38] Unknown:
It was, I forget the the form number, the customs number, but it was a form that specified how much aluminum, steel, or copper content there is in the components. So, apparently, at least one of the components in the package, shipped with a harmonized tariff code that indicated that it contained either steel, aluminum, or copper. And the associated form that's supposed to go along with that to declare how much steel, aluminum, or copper is in that component so that they could figure out, okay. Like, for example, this component is made of 10% aluminum. It cost a dollar. That means at a 100% tariff, they owe us another 10¢ for for this component,
[00:40:33] Unknown:
you know, or whatever equation they use to figure that out. Oh, man. I think they put the wrong code on there, the wrong tariff code. That sounds wrong to me. I I've never ever seen, them come back to you and ask how much, you know, metal is in these components because it's they're so small.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. Right. Extremely little. And the components cost, like, 6 tenths of a cent. Like
[00:41:04] Unknown:
Oh, man. I really think they put the wrong code on there. That that seems like they messed up.
[00:41:09] Unknown:
Yeah. Well, they did, and they need to do the right thing. And if they don't, then I'm not, so sure I'm gonna continue doing business with them.
[00:41:19] Unknown:
How'd they destroy this stuff? I mean Who's got the destruction job?
[00:41:23] Unknown:
The customs.
[00:41:24] Unknown:
The customs agents. Yeah. Someone's got a destruction job. Destroy inventory. Yeah. Wonder how they do it.
[00:41:32] Unknown:
I'm guessing they sell it on the black market and then just keep the cash.
[00:41:38] Unknown:
You put the box on the back steps and be like, it's destroyed. Yeah. Oh, fell off the truck. They're just gonna build the lever board. They're like, we can do it first. Yeah. Oh, man. That is so frustrating.
[00:41:50] Unknown:
Yeah. It is. But I'm I'm learning a lot venturing into this, hardware assembly and manufacturing venture. So
[00:42:02] Unknown:
Well, do we need to order all this stuff from Digi Key? Like, it costs more, but Perhaps. It's not as expensive as just not getting it. Yeah. And it ships from within The US most of the time. I mean, at least it comes from China so that that, you know Right. They deal with it, but, hopefully, they're more after dealing with this stuff.
[00:42:19] Unknown:
Well, look. My moniker is burn the bridge. So you cross me once, and, like, I'm just not that's it. We're done. So Jared. We'll see. The ball is in LCSC's court.
[00:42:34] Unknown:
We'll see. I see. So they're like an upstream supplier, so you can get the components cheaper than a Digi Key.
[00:42:43] Unknown:
Yeah. It's more expensive to get from Digi Key typically.
[00:42:46] Unknown:
I've only ever used
[00:42:48] Unknown:
them. I think the the best way to get components is to buy, like, direct from the manufacturer, but you need quite an inventory appetite to be able to absorb those quantities. Because the manufacturers, they don't wanna be screwing around with the onesies, twosies. They wanna sell you a box of a 100,000 resistors. You know? Right.
[00:43:10] Unknown:
Yeah. They wanna sell you a case of reels. Yeah. Right.
[00:43:15] Unknown:
Dang.
[00:43:16] Unknown:
So we'll see. Minor setback.
[00:43:19] Unknown:
Yeah. Minor setback, but that's okay. You know? Everything's kinda just gonna arrive right when it should, I believe. You know, we're all kinda like and it was just probably gonna be right around the telehash in January. You know? But it looks like the hardware is probably gonna be produced around then and ready, and, Magina will be ready, and the Liber board will be ready, Ember one. And Hydropool, we've got Hydropool up and running right now. Mhmm. So if anyone out there wants to help us test Hydropool, go to point your miners to stratum plus tcp colon slash slash test dot hydropool dot org colon thirty three thirty three. Mhmm.
Keith, I said slash slash for you, not forward slash forward slash. We're good.
[00:44:19] Unknown:
We'll check the hash donation, see if he's still yarping about that. Yeah. Yeah. Junglee had a cool tweet a couple days ago with the, the pie graph breakdown hash rate distribution.
[00:44:30] Unknown:
So the way we did hydropool was it's always in pay per last and share mode. So if you're the only miner, like, if you spin up your own hydro pool instance and you're just running it at home and you have your miners pointed to it and they're all using your Bitcoin address, then you're getting 100% of the shares. If you are hosting a hydro pool for you and your friends and your friends are using other addresses, then it divvies up the shares proportional to their contribution, just like any Mhmm. Pay per last end share pool, would have done if they were still around.
[00:45:13] Unknown:
Oh, man. I can't wait for a hydro pool block soon.
[00:45:17] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting. It's been a lot of work getting it it to this point and, you know, hats off to Junglee for getting it across the finish line. We've been talking all morning about, like, the different ways to package and distribute the software. So, the code is there on GitHub for any anybody who's eager and ambitious. So go to the two fifty six foundations GitHub page and find the hydro pool repo. You can grab the code there. And, otherwise, I think we're gonna go the docker approach, and just try to make it a simple docker container. The dashboard will also be a docker container.
And, so that you know, the trade off there is that the users there's gonna be some prerequisites and the users will need to have Docker installed and running on their system. But I'm gonna put a step by step guide together that details how to, like, do this on your home laptop or desktop and also give an example of, like, how to, like, rent a VPS, a virtual private server, and, install a hydropool instance there and open it up with a public URL for your friends. So I'll I'll document all of that and go over the prerequisites, the steps to deploy on those kinds of systems, and and I'll probably go through, like, how to compile from source code for the super paranoid as well.
[00:46:53] Unknown:
God's work. That's a lot. That's Yeah. It'll be gonna be cool. You need to package it up for, star nine and Umbrel too. Yeah. Which is,
[00:47:03] Unknown:
Docker. Right? They they want them in in Docker format, I think. I know. Or I understood. Definitely. I don't know. Isn't it changing for o four o?
[00:47:12] Unknown:
I don't know. I don't know. I think I might be. I actually don't know what I'm talking about, but I think I heard at ..com that, it's a little bit different for Star nine. They're they're making it even easier supposedly. They had a Yeah. Gary knows how to do it. Gary. That's what I was gonna say. Average Gary. Come on, man. Let's get this going. We Alright. It's it's written in Rust. Right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Very. It's written in Rust. It needs to be packaged. I know you like to do this. We had a long chat about this. At TabConf, StartNine had a a table, and it was just like a package a thon.
People were passing out all kinds of things for StartOS.
[00:47:49] Unknown:
Yeah. We were like, we explored doing, like like, making, like, a Debian package so you could just do, like, sudo d p k g dash I install. Yeah. Yeah. But no. After after talking about it, we decided to go the Docker route. We think that'll be the easiest to, like, maintain going forward for the developer, and, I think it covers the most bases for the end users. Because, like, if we start going the individual packages route, like, dude, there's so many different systems and ways to deploy this stuff that, like, we just can't cover all the use cases, you know, nor do we wanna even try. So
[00:48:40] Unknown:
Yeah. I think putting in a a well documented base case out there, and people will do it. Right? Yeah. Exactly. They'll get it packaged up for every weird little esoteric system. You know? Yeah.
[00:48:52] Unknown:
So all you Temple OS users out there, get ready.
[00:48:57] Unknown:
That that was a joke. I don't even know what that is. What's Temple OS? It was It's probably what his laptop runs. He still got that crappy laptop?
[00:49:06] Unknown:
No. Dude, I actually upgraded. Woah. Yeah. I had a catastrophic failure trying to copy some files from one hard drive to another. You need those $90 back. And, like, I had my head in my hands, and my wife was, observing me fail at life and was like, dude, just do yourself a favor and buy the fucking laptop that you need to do the work that you need to do. So I took her advice and bought a laptop.
[00:49:37] Unknown:
We didn't it we didn't even notice this, but Iko just joins the podcast now and his, like, audio works and his video works.
[00:49:48] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:49:49] Unknown:
You can have more than one tab open. Yeah. Funny how that happens. Did you go Linux?
[00:49:55] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I got, so I went with a company that manufactures laptops specifically for, Linux operating systems.
[00:50:06] Unknown:
System 76?
[00:50:07] Unknown:
Nope. It's called Star Labs.
[00:50:10] Unknown:
Oh, cool.
[00:50:11] Unknown:
And, they have open source firmware, running on their laptops. And I installed first, I went with I was getting into Arch Linux, and so I tried, Arch, Monjaro, k d e. And it it worked fine when I, like, install like, did my initial install and, like, set everything up. I powered the laptop off, powered it back on, and then it went into, like, this weird, like, failure to load cycle, and it just couldn't couldn't run. So I, went back to Debian and went with the Ubuntu distro. So I'm running Ubuntu on it, and it's been running fine with Ubuntu. My desktop, which is the computer that I'm using right now, is an old Optiplex ninety twenty.
And I did keep Arch on this, but it's the, XFCE Manjaro distribution. So, that is a very, like, light and, doesn't consume a lot of resources, which I think works well for the hardware that it's on. So
[00:51:26] Unknown:
This is so cool. You're such a badass. I love that you practice what you preach and just, like, getting this working. It's so cool. Yeah. It's been a lot of fun.
[00:51:36] Unknown:
But, yeah, got a new laptop and, what else was I I was gonna say something else before I went down that tangent. I can't remember.
[00:51:48] Unknown:
Sorry. We threw you off. No. It's okay. So this this laptop,
[00:51:51] Unknown:
when you got it, did it have an OS on it, or is it just, like
[00:51:56] Unknown:
so you can pick which OS you want from the manufacturer. And so on the list of options, they had Manjaro XFCE. So I I picked that one. And so that's the one they loaded on it. But by the time it arrived, I was like, you know, I had already installed XFCE on my desktop and, like, played around with it. And I'm like, that's that's nice and all, but I think KDE is gonna be better. It's more feature rich. There's more, like, nice, quality of life improvements for the end user. And because this laptop is, so well equipped, it has the, Intel Ultra seven, which has 16 cores, 22 threads.
I got it with, 64 gigabytes of RAM.
[00:52:45] Unknown:
Balling.
[00:52:46] Unknown:
Yeah. So it's like it's a dude, my old laptop was, like, 15 years old, had four cores, and was just a, you know, well past its usable lifespan. So this is a major upgrade for me. So I was like, you know, by the time the laptop showed up, I was like, I wanna try the more, like, feature rich version of Monjaro. So I'll put KDE on it. So I didn't even powered on and boot that operating system. I when I powered it on the first time, I booted from that thumb drive and loaded, KDE on there. But for some reason, KDE wasn't one of the pre selectable options from the manufacturer, and I think it's because of what I ran into where it I don't know if it's like a power management thing or what that doesn't allow it to, like, boot with KDE, but that was that was my experience.
So but it runs fine with Banjar sorry. Ubuntu.
[00:53:50] Unknown:
That's so funny. Freedom tech. Also, like, shout out to Linux for getting it working on so many different hardware platforms because, like Right. You know, with a with a complete system, there's there's a lot of other things besides the CPU. Right? Like the power management stuff. Like what happens when you close the laptop? Like, how to interface with the mouse and track the, keyboard and, you know, everything. And every manufacturer is gonna be slightly different. That's gonna be such a crazy thing getting that all working. Mhmm. That's a lot of drivers. Yeah. And not all well, few of them are probably open. Right? It's like you gotta, I don't know, reverse engineer it or use binary blobs or some hack in between.
[00:54:34] Unknown:
Oh, I remember where I was going with this. So TempleOS is this really old Linux distribution that's, religious based. And it's, what? Yeah. Just just do an Internet search for TempleOS, and you'll have you'll be entertained.
[00:54:57] Unknown:
So anyways yeah. For Sometimes you might need divine intervention to get those drivers working.
[00:55:03] Unknown:
For all the TempleOS users, you can you can download the source code for hydro pool and and compile it yourself. TempleOS
[00:55:12] Unknown:
is a biblical themed lightweight operating system Yes. Designed to be the third temple from the Hebrew Bible.
[00:55:19] Unknown:
Alright. This is interesting. Just do what you want.
[00:55:25] Unknown:
Yeah. And, like, I wasn't quite ready to go down the, like, the Richard Stallman rabbit hole where, like, he won't even put, like, m p three drivers on his hardware because m p three m MPEG is a closed standard. Right? Or I guess it wouldn't be a standard if it's closed. Yeah. It's it's closed. The
[00:55:51] Unknown:
the the, like, algorithm to, decode or encode m p three, I think, is, like, a proprietary thing that you need a license to use.
[00:56:05] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. So he like, Richard Stallman, like, if you listen to some of his talks, he's very staunch and has this, like, hard line in the sand about, like, any, like, closed anything that's closed is malware to him. So, like, like, his hardware will not play MP threes or, like, MPEG. Like, he uses, stuff that'll play like the OGG standard, OGG. Uh-huh. Because that's an open standard for media. So I I and so yeah. Like, you can imagine, like, you know, doing, like, audio and video stuff on Linux systems is already, like, kind of not the smoothest anyways.
And then, like, taking it even a step further and, like, not using not having any drivers to play, like, anything, like, m p three. Like, you can only play dot ogg audio files and I just I wasn't ready to go that far. But, I'm I'm pretty happy with where I'm at and the life choices I've made, so stop judging me.
[00:57:12] Unknown:
Cool. No judgment. It's badass. I respect it. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, man. Freedom tech, not just software. You can actually live it in hardware.
[00:57:26] Unknown:
Yeah. It's great.
[00:57:29] Unknown:
Imagine, like, all the stuff we've been talking about today from the laptops to heating systems to these little boxes. Like, all these companies exist. You go on Ring or a boat or Google Nest, and you you pick out all the kit for your house. Right? I want a couple cameras. I want a router. I want some door sensors. I want a heating system. Like, there's a there's a way to package this all up as freedom tech.
[00:57:58] Unknown:
Right. Yeah.
[00:57:59] Unknown:
I think so. Sovereign focused. Yeah. Hardware and software layers
[00:58:04] Unknown:
that don't talk out to the overlords. Well, dude, the tools are just gonna get better and better. I mean, I know that, like, the the closed and proprietary stuff is, like, very well polished and, you know, they're selling a service. But I think as time goes on, more and more people kinda wake up to realizing that they themselves and everything they do and all the data that's collected about them is the product that is that that's involved in this transaction, you know. So, like, you're paying these subscriptions and volunteering all this data, and all that information is getting harvested, analyzed, sold, you know, especially with, like, AI ramping up.
Yeah. You know, this stuff is just gonna get insane. So here's an example. I needed to, rent a trailer. So I went to U Haul the other day, and the guy says, you know, I I reserve the trailer. I go into the store. He says, okay. We're gonna U Haul's gonna send you a text message to your phone, and it'll have a link. You go to that link and follow all the steps and then we can release the trailer. Okay? So I get the link. I open it. Step one, take a selfie. And I look at the guy and I'm like, dude, I'm not taking a selfie. And he's like, you you need you need to take a selfie or I'm not giving you the trailer. And I'm like, opt out. I'll opt out. No. There is no opt out reason, option. You need to do the steps or you're not getting the trailer. And I looked at him and said, okay. Good luck with that business model, man. And I turned around and walked out. Like, if if I have to give you a selfie for your service, it's it's a nonstarter for me. That's a deal breaker. I'm sorry. I don't care what the fucking service is, but I'm borrowing a trailer. I'm not opening a bank account. You're not conducting financial transactions on my behalf. You don't need me to take a fucking selfie.
So yeah. And I I'm just like, that shit's gonna get worse and worse and worse and more invasive and more prevalent, and, more data's gonna get, analyzed by AI. Like, who knows how many, like, third party databases your information is getting passed around to and analyzed in and included in. And then all of those third parties now are potential honeypots for hackers to break into and have your information spilled in, like, the worst possible places. So, like, do yourselves a favor and just, like, use privacy, your right to reveal selectively reveal information about yourself, and be careful about what you reveal.
[01:00:58] Unknown:
It's the boiling frog allegory. I mean, people are getting too complacent with it all for sure. Dude.
[01:01:04] Unknown:
And it it's you know, we have this sort of decentralized way of storing people's personal information. Right? It's not like it's going to the government and their master system. Right? It's like Target and U Haul and everything is storing it or contracting it to someone else to someone else to store it, and they just use, like, f minus security because that costs money, and it's gonna get hacked, and there's no repercussions for them losing your personal information.
[01:01:31] Unknown:
Nope. Or the or the employees of f minus security firm sell it because they can make more money selling your data than they can with their paycheck.
[01:01:40] Unknown:
Yes.
[01:01:41] Unknown:
And, like, and if the government wanted the information, all they need to do is, like, knock on Target's door and be like, yo. Can we get that database of, like, the millions of, facial recognition scans your store cameras have conducted over the last twenty four hours? And they're like, yep. Here you go. Like
[01:02:01] Unknown:
But even easier than that, Palantir is just gonna give it to them for them. Yes. I think there's a centralization force here. Like, Target's not gonna manage all this shit. They're gonna contract it out to a company that's an expert at it. And then you have multiple companies feeding up to this mega source. The honeypot gets more centralized.
[01:02:19] Unknown:
Yeah. Well like, ineptitude all the way up.
[01:02:23] Unknown:
What's interesting about Target specifically is that they they actually have their own forensics lab.
[01:02:29] Unknown:
That is interesting. I wouldn't expect that. Yeah. It is.
[01:02:34] Unknown:
Well, they had like, so, like, shoplifting Yeah. Falls very low on law enforcement priority lists. And so the people running Target, you know, shoplifting is a major deal for Target. Right? So, it was justified for them to, like, launch their own forensics arm to handle evidence stemming from incidences, across all their stores around the the nation. So, yeah, they have a forensics lab.
[01:03:11] Unknown:
Jeez.
[01:03:12] Unknown:
And it's kinda messed up because there's as far as I know, there's no, like, legal requirement for U Haul to collect that personal information. It's probably like they got a nickel discount on their insurance if they Right. Collect information from you. Right? Yeah. They don't they don't care. They're just about, you know, making a little bit more profit and Yep. Lowering their insurance costs.
[01:03:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Because, like, somebody, like, you know, uses a fake ID and, like, goes and wrecks a U Haul truck one time, and then they they ruin it for the rest of us. And they the insurance rates go up. And then the insurance provider is like, you know what would really help your insurance rate is if you use my brother in law's analytics firm to all you gotta do is get all your customers to take a selfie, and then we'll we'll we'll bring your rates back down to last year's prices.
[01:04:06] Unknown:
You guys are telling me you don't turn on the accelerometer in your phone when you drive around to get a dollar off your insurance every month? Dude, fuck no.
[01:04:15] Unknown:
Uh-uh. Nope.
[01:04:16] Unknown:
Oh, man. It's so bad with cars. Yeah. It is. It's so bad with cars because they're all computers now. Yeah. Mhmm. For, like, over a decade, all cars have been Internet, like, persistent Internet connection Yep. To the car. Yeah.
[01:04:29] Unknown:
The sweet spot's, like, 2010 and before. I think 2000 to 2010, you get some safety, you get some airbags, but it's not totally tainted by the surveillance state.
[01:04:39] Unknown:
It's it's so bad. Like, to to be able to control people's freedom of movement like that and just track it, it's yeah. It's really bad. I don't know why people aren't raising more of a stink about cars, like, tracking your every movement and being remotely disabled. Mhmm. Like, that seems
[01:04:59] Unknown:
just It's because they're wondering if you caught the game this weekend.
[01:05:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're baking it into the like, Tesla offers insurance, so you you don't even have to have a separate account. Oh, you could get your car insurance from Tesla? Yes. And it uses the in car camera to watch you, the human. It watches the road. It knows your acceleration because the insurance is baked into all of the sensors and data of the vehicle itself. Dude,
[01:05:29] Unknown:
no. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm going to perpetually live in, like, 1995 for the rest of my life. And Let's go. The world is just gonna get more and more uncomfortable and difficult to navigate, but I'm just gonna hold it down.
[01:05:49] Unknown:
We gotta I'm not budging. I'm not gonna budge. There's a fun little story in our god fearing, wonderful county that is Denver County. Palantir is here in Denver. They have some presence here, and there was a proposal to the city council to get a $1,200,000 budget for these Palantir cameras. And it's the whole Oh my god. It's the whole, artificial intelligence. Like, even without your plate, they can kind of learn whose cars are who and who's in what part of town. It's this pre crime thing. Right? Yeah. Oh, these vehicles drove to the East side of town. Let's send the police there ahead of time just in case something happens. And, it was a unanimous 12 vote against this proposal.
And so what our lovely mayor, Mike Johnson, went out and did is he approved a $499,000 contract because anything over $500,000, he needs the council's approval.
[01:06:46] Unknown:
That fucking scumbag.
[01:06:48] Unknown:
So we might have to get a little Blade Runner action over here. For real. Yeah.
[01:06:55] Unknown:
There was that thing with, I think it was, Ring, which is a part of Google, maybe. I think it's elect Amazon. Amazon. Okay. They they originally had an opt in program where you could just sort of automatically provide the video feed from your door your porch, to law enforcement. But then there's some drama recently, like, maybe it's on by default and now it's opt out. And
[01:07:25] Unknown:
Okay. So I was setting up the ring that was left at my house this past weekend because I was playing around with the home assistant. I wanted to see, first of all, how you set up all this stuff because it's a learning experience and how these companies do it differently and what can we learn from that for, like, mining. But, yeah, I didn't see an option for that. So I'm sure it's probably just baked in. There is an option to share with your neighbors automatically. Like, if the neighbor says I'm looking for a dog, then you can automatic you can turn on a toggle where it'll let them look at your feed for dogs. Oh, dude.
[01:07:58] Unknown:
Come on.
[01:07:59] Unknown:
I'm definitely
[01:08:00] Unknown:
just looking for dogs all around town. Yeah. Let me just watch your front porch and see when you come home every day. I'm looking for a dog. I promise.
[01:08:09] Unknown:
Yeah. We have to smash all these things. It's so bad. It's so 1984. Like Yeah. That was the whole premise of 1984 was Big Brother is watching. Like Right. How are they watching? I don't know. When that book came out, it seemed a little bit improbable, but now it's not at all. They can watch, listen with ease.
[01:08:27] Unknown:
Ring does sell a box because I was going through the app, looking at all the kit and stuff you can add to it. They do sell a box where you can do local video processing and storage, but I I don't know if it opts you out of also
[01:08:42] Unknown:
talking to their server. Yeah. How do you know it's not just, like, mirror mirroring everything to home base. Yeah. It might be an illusion. Can't trust them, dude. That's why we need open source tools. Yes.
[01:08:56] Unknown:
Yeah. I've become a home assistant, Maxie. It's
[01:08:59] Unknown:
amazing. That's great. So they have that software, Pi Hole. Have you seen that? It's like it's for ad blocking. Heard of that. Yeah. It's a it's like Raspberry Pi software. You can just put it on a Raspberry Pi, put it on your network, and it will sort of intercept, calls to, you know, remote ad servers and things like that and just block it. But we need that is for IoT, these, like, shady IoT devices. Oh, yeah. All in there. And every time it, you know, sends out a little ping to, Amazon or Google or whatever. Right? It's just, like, block it is the first step. But second would be is to actually provide your your local hosted
[01:09:39] Unknown:
version of it. Right. Does a lot of this fall under the purview of, like, the router? It almost seems like having a really
[01:09:49] Unknown:
freedom focused router would solve a lot of this. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, the router is gonna control all those connections in and out of your network.
[01:09:56] Unknown:
Yeah. P f Sense, it makes, open source router firmware that's very configurable. And then if you use, like, a service like, Mullvad or like a v I I don't know about other VPN providers, but I know with Mullvad, you can also use, like, their ad blocking DNS servers. So you can go in and tell your configure your router to, like, use those DNS servers instead. And then, like, it's nice because you'll just be using your web browser on your home network, looking at, you know, say, like, bitcoinmagazine.com, and everywhere that would typically be ad spaces just like empty space on your screen. You're not being bombarded with all these advertisements any longer.
[01:10:50] Unknown:
They have a I just saw the other day, Movad makes a browser. Have you seen that? Yep. Yeah. I've used it. I've got it on my on my on my new laptop. It's, like, configured with all those things by default. Seems pretty nice.
[01:11:02] Unknown:
Yeah. It it is. I have been trying it out. I like it so far. I don't have any complaints. Brave Brave is my daily driver. I usually use Brave driver or Brave browser. Before that, it was Firefox. But, they did some things last year. I can't recall exactly what they did, but it was just like They went, like, closed source or something. Yeah. Firefox really like shit that bad. Like, they Yeah. There was a there was, like, a couple things they did, and that was just like, woah. Like, what are you guys doing? Fuck this. Well, Brave has the shit coin. Yeah. You don't have to use it, though. Yeah. You don't have to interact with it at all. Like, there's, like, a toggle to, like, turn your wallet on or off.
Other than that, like, if you can find it, de googled Chromium or un googled Chromium is nice. Mhmm. And mobile browser. Yeah.
[01:11:59] Unknown:
You don't want the smart fridge with ads on it that tells you what you should buy at the grocery
[01:12:04] Unknown:
store? Oh my god.
[01:12:05] Unknown:
No. No. Science. No. Take my name off that list.
[01:12:12] Unknown:
Is it impossible to get your persona, your Internet persona, off of all these systems? Or is the cat out of the bag? Like, am I Dude, once you reveal the information, there's no getting it back.
[01:12:27] Unknown:
Ugh. I mean, just for example, like, you unsubscribe from some random ass mailing list that you got put on and it'll work for, like, six months or a year. And then all of a sudden, you just get the messages again. Like, they just decide, like, let's just check and see if they want it. Right? So it's not like
[01:12:42] Unknown:
you were deleted. Right? You have to mark them like Seth for privacy was telling us was that a lot of these, like, SQL databases, it's actually just easier to turn a flag than actually delete an entry Yeah. For their management so that they don't actually ever get rid of anything. Uh-uh. No.
[01:13:03] Unknown:
And then when that, like, database gets leaked because there's a data breach because it's mishandled, it's still there. And then who's ever, like, getting the fruits of that hack are they don't give a fuck what the flags are. They they see all the information they want.
[01:13:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Damn. I really goofed up not having a pseudonym, guys. It's too late.
[01:13:27] Unknown:
I mean, no. It's not. Don't feel like it's too late. It's never too late to start practicing good privacy hygiene.
[01:13:38] Unknown:
How do they start for our listeners? What what would you recommend?
[01:13:43] Unknown:
My first recommendation would be to, start using a password manager. Very simple. Start using a password manager.
[01:13:55] Unknown:
What's the password manager, though?
[01:13:57] Unknown:
Well, there's some good ones out there. Wharton? There's some bad ones, though. Yeah. Alright. Bitwarden is a good one. I like Bitwarden. I like KeePass. I'll just leave it there. Those are my top two go tos. So not 1Password and LastPass? Yeah. No. I I don't recommend those ones. Yeah.
[01:14:23] Unknown:
So Self host one on a start nine or a number.
[01:14:26] Unknown:
A password manager. You can you can do that too. But a password manager, use different passwords, use a different unique random password for all of your accounts, and then, like, try to start, rolling out of any Google services that you're using. So, for example, if you're on an Android, switch to a de googled operating system like Graphene. If you're on an iPhone, consider switching to Android. I think those just those two things alone are are huge first steps that a user can take, and they can start to, one, protect all of their private information that they have to log in to. Because if, like, one of if you're using the same password for everything and one of your accounts gets breached, then potentially all of your accounts are getting breached.
And if you're using Google services, then it's it's constantly monitoring everything that you're doing. It's probably you activating the microphones and cameras on your cell phone when you don't know that it is and every bit of information that it can get out of you is selling to advertisers. So in order to stop that, de Google your mobile device. And, you know, if you're using an email provider, Matt Odell had an interesting slide where, it was like these large circles that represented, like, Internet activity. And the email bubble was, like, like way bigger than any of the other like, Internet activity that goes on there. So the majority of Internet activity is emails being sent back and forth. So if you're using an email provider that can read your emails, and use and scan them and sell that information to advertisers, then, you know, I think that's an like, the third area of major concern I would attack. And I would go for a more privacy focused email provider like Tutanota or ProtonMail.
Those would be my top two suggestions. And that way, your emails are encrypted and they can't even the email server where those emails reside, the owner of that server cannot read your emails because they're encrypted. So, yeah, start doing that and then start, you know, try instead of using SMS messages, which are not encrypted to text with friends and family. Try getting your friends and family onto encrypted messaging services like Signal. And, I I think those would be, like, monumental privacy preserving steps that are, like, pretty low hanging fruit for anybody to start taking. And if you wanna go further than that, like, start doing what Tyler is doing and try to, like, self host everything you possibly can.
The trade off is that, like, you're gonna slowly become, sysadmin and Yeah. IT part time guru. But, you know, the benefit is you're you're taking yourself out of the pool of monitored people, and you're reducing your footprint you're leaving where you're getting tracked. And you're not getting milked for SaaS money as much. That's a big benefit too when you sell host things. Yeah. Just it sucks when you're the product and, you you know, you're not getting anything out of it. So Yeah. Take yourself out of that equation.
[01:18:20] Unknown:
Good steps. Good steps. Scott, what's this edit board thing you'd put in the notes? Ant hat inside a stealth miner.
[01:18:32] Unknown:
Well, I think okay. So the I made a a single board, miner. So I used the hash board from an s 19 j Pro. Sat Sacking Pleb very graciously sent me one of his stealth miner enclosures, which are super rad, by the way. They are. It's so nicely done. Like, he he did a really nice job with this. So I've got my s 19 j Pro dashboard in there, but, I'm not super into using Bitmain firmware. So I,
[01:19:06] Unknown:
wait. What? Yeah. I don't know. Just I'm shocked. Yeah.
[01:19:12] Unknown:
So I've got an ADIT board in there. An ADIT board is a USB adapter for, Bitmain hash board. And then I plugged that, USB into a Raspberry Pi. And the Raspberry Pi has a a hat on it, a little accessory board on it that can control the fans. That's called the ant hat. And, yeah, that's that's controlling the miner. So I'm running, the firmware on the Raspberry Pi to do the mining is called Pi miner. And it's it's kind of a goofy little project that I've just been hacking on. But eventually, this will be, using Magina firmware, which is gonna be a much better way of doing this. But even using Pi miner, like, it works.
I I was mining with it. I'm I'm gonna use this for heat reuse. I'm I've been working on a project to do, to cure tobacco. That's right. Minor heat, but that's that's what this is for.
[01:20:12] Unknown:
That's amazing.
[01:20:13] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's been really fun. This the stealth miner enclosure is really slick. I think it's gonna interface nicely with this, kiln for tobacco curing.
[01:20:23] Unknown:
When do you harvest the tobacco?
[01:20:26] Unknown:
So it's an incremental process. You kind of do it from the bottom up of the plant, like, as they start to turn a little bit as the leaves start to turn yellow. So I I have been harvesting and still have some more to go. Awesome. Yeah. And then there's, like, a drying phase. You hang them, for a little bit, and then and then the curing needs to happen. So I am getting I'm getting towards that spot in which curing needs to happen. So been working on this. Yeah. I think the the Adit board is is really neat. It's a super simple little thing. I mean, it's it's small. It's like an inch wide and like half an inch tall, but it just plugs right into that, data connector on the top of a hash board and gives you a USB c port. And there's some simple firmware that goes on the AttitBoard that was written by k one.
But it's really neat. It just it makes, the hash board a USB serial device on what whatever computer you plug it to. And it can So this is how the, Ember one was running at temps. Correct? Mhmm. Very similar. With, it wasn't using an AddIt directly, but it was using the same processor that's on the AddIt board and Gotcha. Passing the data through to the, actually, s 19 j Pro chips that are on the Amber one. Mhmm. So I've done a lot of the software leg work to get that working, and and Ryan's also working on it for Magina. But, yeah, it was it was up and running. It's pretty neat.
[01:21:54] Unknown:
Do you have the, like, manifold hat for the stealth miner that I saw sat stacking plug working on? I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here. Actually, it's right here. Let's go.
[01:22:07] Unknown:
Look at this bad boy.
[01:22:08] Unknown:
Oh, look
[01:22:09] Unknown:
at that. That is sweet.
[01:22:12] Unknown:
That's amazing.
[01:22:14] Unknown:
Dude, that looks like something you would just see around, like, as heating infrastructure. It's very unassuming.
[01:22:21] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's really well done. Seth Second Plow did such a nice job with this. You know, everything fit in there easily. And he actually modified this for me to, hold the Raspberry Pi. Nice. Yeah. Really cool. Really, really, stoked to get this running. He's got a, I don't know if you can see on the front there, there's a spot for a HEPA filter. Yeah. And he made a custom, back plate
[01:22:49] Unknown:
for me there that holds everything in nicely. Oh, I gotta get one of these at the Heat Punk Summit. I'm trying to get him to bring his bus to the Heat Punk Summit if he'll finish it already. That'd be cool.
[01:22:57] Unknown:
Oh, nice.
[01:22:59] Unknown:
That'd be sweet. We, we were looking into teaser doing a little Hashrate hot tub party on Friday night for the Heapunk Summit. And I think we're we found this service in Denver where you can, get them to come spit roast a pig. Oh, yeah. Tiki torches, and that'll be a fun party. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Pig roasts are always fun. Yeah.
[01:23:25] Unknown:
I mean, they gotta start pretty early in the morning, but yeah. We'll be here all day. Yep.
[01:23:32] Unknown:
That'll be awesome. Do you guys see this announcement from Block about Open IP?
[01:23:41] Unknown:
No. Open intellectual property?
[01:23:45] Unknown:
Yeah. Block launches Open IP putting builders first. And it I'm unclear if it's Building on Block's open source foundation. It's something about how they want builders to tweak what they've done. They're starting with title. And they're essentially kinda just saying, we're not gonna sue you if you start doing this
[01:24:07] Unknown:
publicly. That's a good start. Yeah.
[01:24:10] Unknown:
It's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, with all the legal threats that have been flying around the space recently, that's refreshing to hear.
[01:24:19] Unknown:
It is. Yeah. It's really exciting. I'm gonna have to take a deeper dive into that. Well, so o Open IP, is that like a
[01:24:28] Unknown:
an entity or like a project? Or,
[01:24:31] Unknown:
Seems like it's a project.
[01:24:34] Unknown:
It's just like a like a an initiative they're doing to make their intellectual property accessible to builders. I wonder if they, like Yeah. Wonder what the like, there's gotta be a catch. Right? Like, if you're a builder patents to the public.
[01:24:56] Unknown:
Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. No. It's fine. I'm just, like,
[01:25:00] Unknown:
thinking about, like, some scenarios that come to mind are, like, Google recently made changes in their policies so that if you want to upload applications to the Google Play Store, you need to, as a developer, submit your I your government issued identifying documents.
[01:25:23] Unknown:
Not not even just the Play Store. Right? Like, they're starting to require developers who wanna have the apps side loaded to join the developer program. Right?
[01:25:35] Unknown:
Well, side loading apps means that you're getting them from a source other than the Google Play Store. Yeah.
[01:25:43] Unknown:
They they came out and said that they're starting to,
[01:25:47] Unknown:
require apps to be signed. So no matter how you get them on your device, they need to be signed. Oh, yeah. So the Google hardware itself is going to start requiring that the apps come from the Google Play Store.
[01:26:00] Unknown:
Is that just Pixel devices or all Android? I don't I don't think I think it's not just the Play Store. Right? It's side loaded apps. Like, it the phone just or the the Android OS just will not run apps that are not signed.
[01:26:11] Unknown:
Yeah. It won't you won't be able to sideload apps because they're not coming from the Play Store. Right.
[01:26:19] Unknown:
Just quickly here on the block thing, it says that we're beginning this initiative with a concrete step. We're pledging our content streaming, personalization, and artist compensation patents under the Open IP framework. I wonder what that means. So they're starting with title. But Interesting.
[01:26:35] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:26:36] Unknown:
I mean, it sounds good on the surface. I hope it is good. Mhmm.
[01:26:42] Unknown:
This is this is what we need. I was thinking about this when you when you guys were talking about Canaan. Like, they're the underdogs. Right? They have, like, single digit percentage of the market, of the minor market Yep. Or maybe, like, 10%, something like that. Right? They're they're hungry for new new markets, for new customers, for more sales. Right? So they're willing to do these things that the the incumbents, won't, which is going after this heating market. That's that's really good to see. Right? That's we need these these hungry players. I think that I hope that, Block and Proto will do the same thing because it's gonna be probably impossible to compete with Bitmain at, like, these on grid, mining machines. They have such an insane head start. Right? But as we know, as Tyler, you've made very clear, there's a huge potential market out there.
So these these underdogs can gain market share, can gain sales Mhmm. By, you know, tailoring their products to these other markets. And I really, really hope we see more of that.
[01:27:50] Unknown:
You think it'll just be a slow transition or a fracturing or a step change? I mean, something I've struggled with chatting with Canaan and meeting some of the amazing people at Block and Proto's team is, like, we gotta convince them the market's there. You know? Because it's a it's a big undertaking to spend a ton of money. I mean, I guess if you're open sourcing the stack, right, then it doesn't matter. People can go build what they want and you you make chips available. That's like then it doesn't matter. Right? Yeah. You don't have to spend any extra money to go build the heating market. Right. You just have to make the tools available.
Whereas someone like Canon, it's it's a little bit more of a gamble and credit where credit's due. That's cool to see. Right? I mean, you said it was a big part this these smaller miners were a big part of their sales. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that gamble is playing off, playing out well in their favor because I keep recommending their systems. I mean, they're great. They're quiet already, and it's, like, 18 joules per terra hash. It's wild. Yeah. For that baseboard unit? Yeah. That's pretty good. They just announced the a 16, which is 12 joules per terra hash, Canon did. Wow. That's the industrial miner, but I'm sure those chips will trickle into new, whole mining gadgets. Mhmm. Wow.
[01:29:09] Unknown:
But, like, look at Bitmain. Right? Their s 23 is supposed to be nine. Nine. Yeah. They're so far ahead. That's so difficult. You know, they've got they're a major Bitmain is a major player at TSMC. It's gonna be impossibly hard for someone else to play at that level. It's like 30%
[01:29:27] Unknown:
better for the industrial guys. I agree with you, Scott. That is like a deal breaker. But for me, like, I don't care about the difference between nine and twelve jewels per terre hash. Exactly. Exactly. That's how you compete with Bitmain, is you go after these other markets where the it isn't just about efficiency for on grid mining. Like, efficiency is
[01:29:46] Unknown:
the whole game. Yeah. If you're just plugging it in on grid, all you care about is how little electricity it costs you for for the hash rate.
[01:29:55] Unknown:
I'm really curious how it's gonna play out with a lot of the larger miners transitioning to HPC. I was chatting with someone who's in the infrastructure business this week. He was here at the space. Transformers, PDUs, they make all this cool stuff. And I was asking, like, why are all these mega miners switching to HPC? My thought was, is a lot of the infrastructure the same? Not I don't think so. Is it the power purchasing agreements? Like, is that what the valuable part is? He told me it was actually an answer I didn't expect. He said, all these companies that are contracted to build the two gigawatt site for Google or Amazon or Grok or whatever, they're, like, booked out years in advance. So these companies with infinite money, the OpenAI's, the Metas, they're essentially just saying, hey, CleanSpark and Terawolf, we saw you just brought whatever gigawatts online.
You guys seem to be worth your snuff. What if we gave you a shitload of money? Can you do it for HPC? So they're just, like, looking for talent that can build it because there's not enough companies out there that can bring these sites online,
[01:31:04] Unknown:
which is really interesting. Well, yeah. And it's super specialized. And I Yeah. And, you know, from, like, the public, traded company's point of view, I think they have, like, a fiduciary duty to do what's best for their shareholder or what's gonna make their shareholders the most money. Right. Right? And so I think that's why you're gonna see a lot of them, go after HPC because if they can make more money doing that than they can Bitcoin mining, then they kinda have to do it.
[01:31:34] Unknown:
Yeah. He told me the the switchboards, which ultimately go for they're in between the transformer and the PDUs, in the in, like, the flow of power. He said for the HPC stuff, they're, like, nine times as large for the equivalent power that a Bitcoin mining site would use because of all the redundancy. Oh, just to make sure it stays online? Yeah. Interesting. Infinitely more expensive. Wow. Literally massively larger in terms of footprint.
[01:32:04] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:32:06] Unknown:
So it's it's very different.
[01:32:08] Unknown:
I mean, we heard Adam Sullivan from, Core Scientific, I imagine if, say that he was talking about going out and getting the people that were building these data centers for the big guys to help them do their HPC conversion. So I gotta believe there's a lot of difference between making a Bitcoin mining farm and one of these AI data centers. Like you said, just the redundancy,
[01:32:35] Unknown:
the quality of it. Yeah. It's a whole different animal. Yeah. Mhmm.
[01:32:40] Unknown:
But, you know, they they know how to get cheap power, and I feel like that's that's how you get started.
[01:32:47] Unknown:
Right. Well, and I think it'll open up mining for, other people,
[01:32:52] Unknown:
you know. Like,
[01:32:54] Unknown:
if the public companies aren't gonna be doing the mining, like, someone's gonna pick that up. Exactly. So
[01:33:01] Unknown:
You know what I think that these these Pubco miners have really mastered is raising money to build. Well, yeah. Right? Like, that's what they have. Right? They've Yes. Figured out how to get capital to build computing infrastructure. And so it's like, alright, well, we'll change to this other type, whatever way. We we can get the money. Yeah.
[01:33:25] Unknown:
Yeah. It's wild to see. I mean, Marty had a good article that came out yesterday that six weeks after we hit one zeta hash, we already added another 100 x a hash. It took twelve years to hit a 100 x a hash, and we just did the next, like, six weeks added another.
[01:33:40] Unknown:
It's wild. That is pretty wild. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess I I just every time I hear those numbers getting thrown around, I wonder, like, how big is that window he's looking at?
[01:33:53] Unknown:
True. Yeah. It's super volatile depending on how you're breaking it down. Right. I think I chimed in. This is my, me trying to be philosopher brain. Too bad Rob and Rod aren't here. Rob would love this. Yeah. He would. I was playing with this idea that hash rate growth is a better metric of prosperity in an ideal Bitcoin future than GDP because it's literally a physical power metric of the human capacity to monetize stranded energy, build infrastructure, reduce waste, and increase efficiency. And if you were breaking down hash rate growth by nations, I think that's probably a more real measure of prosperity than GDP.
[01:34:56] Unknown:
Well, I think I think both can be, manipulated pretty heavily. Right? So, I mean, first and foremost, you gotta trust your hash rate measurements accurate and the the GDP numbers are accurate. Because, like, imagine a a nation that just, like, like, say, like, North Korea is, like, doing, like, horrific things to their population. Yeah. To their population in order to increase hash rate growth, you know. Is that is that truly does that truly mean that it's better than, South Korea that might have a higher GDP and less hash rate growth?
[01:35:42] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't know if GDP factors in, like, human rights, unfortunately. True. Yeah. Definitely not. But, I mean, you can't you can't fake the hash rate. Right? As if you're looking at the blockchain and, you know, basically the time between solving blocks, it's pretty it's impossible to fake the hash rate. But I think what you can fake is where it's coming from, which Yeah.
[01:36:06] Unknown:
Okay. Interesting. Maybe I'm retarded.
[01:36:12] Unknown:
It's an interesting idea. Like, looking at sort of the power production capability of a country as a measure of their growth as their of their capabilities.
[01:36:22] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's like that scatterplot. Like, you never see a, what is it? Energy poor Rich Rich country. Rich country. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that how is that how the saying goes? Yeah. Yeah. The more energy you consume, the more prosperous your people are. Yeah. I mean, I I believe that for sure. So I think 100%. There's definitely, like, validity to what you're saying because, you know, for all the reasons you've mentioned that hash rate is a good indicator.
[01:36:57] Unknown:
Well, if the people in North Korea could mine without getting gulag ed. Right. Yeah. But you're right. It's about who's hashing. Who's bringing it online?
[01:37:07] Unknown:
Right. Like, is it, like yeah. I don't know.
[01:37:13] Unknown:
So what like, if you I mean, I feel like hash rate and sort of your Bitcoin rewards from that hash rate are a part of GDP. Right?
[01:37:29] Unknown:
The Bitcoin rewards. Yeah.
[01:37:32] Unknown:
That would be a contributor to gross domestic product. I'm no economist. But Likewise. I think I think so. We're better off. Yeah.
[01:37:44] Unknown:
Yeah. We'll let Rob chime in. I'll I'll shoot him a text. He'll have the answer. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna hear what Rob has to say. Yeah. Big time. We, I got a cool message from a guy on x nuclear Bitcoiner. He's I think he's his handle, but, he was asking me so the smart thermostat behind me, the one we replaced, it it has this feature where you opt in with the utility where it's like, let the utility control the temperature in your house, and we'll give you some money. Right? Give up more control. What if they could do that in real time by paying me SATs to the thermostat as an IoT device to change the temperature.
And the more SATs they gave me, the more they could change the temperature.
[01:38:37] Unknown:
How do they pay you now?
[01:38:40] Unknown:
You get, a paycheck at the end of the year, like a a credit.
[01:38:45] Unknown:
Like a credit toward your utility bill? Mhmm.
[01:38:48] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yeah.
[01:38:50] Unknown:
I I have a sneaking suspicion the utility companies won't want to, like, actually stream SATs, but they'd like to stick with their, like, credit model against their invoices.
[01:39:04] Unknown:
Do you guys subscribe to the SAT streaming model where everything's an Internet connected device and they're communicating between each other autonomously?
[01:39:12] Unknown:
I mean, I think there's some cool potential there. I don't necessarily subscribe. I'm not sure what I'm subscribing to. Like,
[01:39:22] Unknown:
am I subscribing to think you'll manifest. Yeah.
[01:39:25] Unknown:
I I would not subscribe to the idea that all devices will be Internet connected and streaming sets to each other. No.
[01:39:33] Unknown:
Okay. But I also like like Not your ninety five ninety five pickup.
[01:39:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Hell no. I also, like, don't subscribe to this idea that, like, mass adoption will ever occur either. So, like, I just I don't buy the hyperbolic, outlooks. Maybe I've just I've either been burned too many times or I'm just too skeptical or something, but I'm jaded some way, somehow.
[01:40:01] Unknown:
It's it's a lot easier for them to give you credit. Right? Yeah. They're not gonna be wanna be like, let's give you hard money. Yeah. That's that's a lot more difficult to Or just budget for the end of the year. Yeah. We'll just, you know, give you credit. Meanwhile, we're jacking up our rates constantly. So, you know, they they can that's a very soft money that they can just easily print.
[01:40:25] Unknown:
Right. Dude, somehow, I lucked out. Our time of use just updated here. I could opt in to time of use or non time of use, and my power dropped from 14¢ flat to 8. Woah. And then the time of use from five to 9PM is 21¢. So just home some home assistant automations don't run the miners from five to nine, Monday through Friday. But, otherwise, like like, like, the Canaan miner is actually profitable here. It's 7.9¢.
[01:40:55] Unknown:
Are there limits on the, the total, like, energy use for that you can be at?
[01:41:01] Unknown:
It's just a flat rate. There's no limit from hours outside of five to nine on eight days. Your limit is what your main breaker can handle.
[01:41:13] Unknown:
Oh, I see. Yeah. I know. Also, it's a If you go to them, you're like, alright. Well, let's let's go. I want a bigger, I want a bigger breaker and sell it. Give me another 100 amps. Yeah. All of a sudden, you're not eligible for those time of use, brackets anymore.
[01:41:26] Unknown:
And it's a little bit they're all disingenuous in the sense that they say your flat rate is 7¢ or 8¢, but then there's, like, all these metered fees and then static fees. And then it you math that out, and it's, like, 18¢.
[01:41:40] Unknown:
Yeah. Utility bills are a fucking It's a racket. It's a hornet's nest, man. Mhmm. But I do remember, like, when I was living in the Denver area, I remember saving roughly 5¢ a kilowatt hour when I switched to time of use model Dang. Which is great. Yeah. But
[01:42:05] Unknown:
I just wanna be able to connect solar without having to have it be a part of the grid. That's a big barrier that needs to be overcome. You can't put solar on your house, or it's very difficult to do it and not have it. Because if it's connected to your breaker, then it has to have an interconnect for them to be able to manage it back. And that's where all the cost and complexity and time delays come in. Well, if you've just I mean, I think it depends on how you do it. Like, if you wanna integrate it into, you know, powering your entire home, then you're out for sure. But if you just have, like, a dedicated
[01:42:41] Unknown:
outlet or two that are, like, these are the outlets connected to the solar system, then it can be isolated pretty easily.
[01:42:49] Unknown:
Could a battery, a home battery, act as that isolator too? If the solar only charges the battery and the battery is interlinked to all the outlets in the house. I wonder if that's a loophole.
[01:43:02] Unknown:
Maybe. That'd be cool.
[01:43:07] Unknown:
But, like, the battery would have so, like, your panel would be getting fed by the grid, and then it would be, like, when does the battery start feeding your panel?
[01:43:18] Unknown:
Prioritize the battery. Yeah. You're right. You'd have to have some logic.
[01:43:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:43:25] Unknown:
All this stuff's so fun to learn about. It's so complicated.
[01:43:29] Unknown:
Just yeah. Whoever can figure out how to keep the parasitic power company out of the loop wins. Yes.
[01:43:35] Unknown:
A million percent. I'm excited for the telehash and NEMS. I know that there's been some
[01:43:46] Unknown:
chatter about some fun stuff cooking up for it. So Yeah. Telehash will be good. We're we're roping in d plus plus to help us with, some of the, like, graphics that'll be on the livestream and some of the
[01:44:01] Unknown:
Is she gonna gamify it?
[01:44:03] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, that's, like, what she's good at. Right? So Oh, yeah. Leaderboards. Yeah. She's got some really great ideas that she's been bringing to the table, so we just wanna give her that platform to create.
[01:44:17] Unknown:
The Teledash. Yeah. Teledash. Yeah. We were we were chatting a bunch Plus plus. Nashville. Like, just so many awesome ideas, to, get viewers involved in it and, you know, incentivize supporting the two fifty six foundation. I think there's a lot of really cool ideas there. Yeah. It's a it's a neat model of fundraising too. I think it having to be interactive and, you know, fun and lots of different ways to contribute.
[01:44:49] Unknown:
Well and we're gonna be running this one on hydropool. Nice. But, like, now hydro pool is you know, we've we did we tried that in May, and we had some hiccups that was, like, the very early first iteration of hydro pool. So a lot has changed since then, with the hydro pool code base. And I've I've got pretty high expectations, and I think it'll be pretty awesome.
[01:45:20] Unknown:
Definitely. Two blocks.
[01:45:23] Unknown:
All the blocks. I wanna do it I wanna do a teleheat where if people donate hash rate, it lets them the more hash rate they donate, the more they can turn up my thermostat and cook me.
[01:45:38] Unknown:
It's like Meg Tyler sweat.
[01:45:40] Unknown:
Yeah. That'd be fun.
[01:45:43] Unknown:
Man. That'd be really cool.
[01:45:46] Unknown:
We could figure it out. Sweet. What else do you guys wanna chat about?
[01:45:51] Unknown:
It's been a long time. List. Did we go through
[01:45:55] Unknown:
And do do you guys wanna say anything about Luke's, soft fork? I guess there's a there's enough people talking about it on Twitter.
[01:46:07] Unknown:
I haven't given it any thought.
[01:46:11] Unknown:
No. I don't. It's pretty ridiculous. I I just like, the what really irks me is, like, the, like, legal threat the threatening legal, like, over looming threatening legal vibe from it. Like, if you don't run Luke's fork, you may, be facing legal consequences, I believe is how it's something along those lines is how it's phrased in the BIP itself. Really? In the BIP? Yeah. Yeah. You can look up Oh, that messed up. 40 four four four, And it's in there that, like, if you don't run this, you may face legal consequences, which is ridiculous and absurd. Like, in what jurisdiction?
[01:46:56] Unknown:
Like
[01:46:57] Unknown:
Well, and Luke has gone out on Twitter and said, if you don't run this, his node software, you are explicitly supporting child pornography,
[01:47:11] Unknown:
which is insane. That is insane.
[01:47:14] Unknown:
You know, like I use the US dollar, and I am not explicitly supporting child pornography even though the US dollar is used in child pornography. It's just, dude, it's an it's it's it's gone completely insane. I've also heard I haven't seen this. I haven't verified this myself. So, disclaimer. But I've heard that Ocean's legal teams or an attorney that's working with Luke, I don't know if if they came from Ocean or not, but I heard that there are, legal letters circulating to other mining companies, trying to encourage them to switch to not so that, they don't face legal consequences, with these with the core version 30 changes.
[01:48:15] Unknown:
Well, that's unfortunate.
[01:48:17] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, it it is. It is very unfortunate. It's aligned with the, like, piece that the rage did recently, exposing some text messages that were exchanged between Luke Dash junior and somebody else, where, you know, he was talking about all of this. And, you know, despite all the people claiming that the rage article was a hit piece and it was inaccurate and it was taken out of context, I think in hindsight, it seems like it was pretty accurate to me. So
[01:48:50] Unknown:
crazy times we live in. Well, Bitcoin is a an open network. It's permissionless. People can do whatever they want. They can make rad stuff, or they can do, you know, very unfortunate, you know, legal attacks.
[01:49:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Like Yeah. State apparatus enforcement doesn't seem like a good strategy.
[01:49:08] Unknown:
Yeah. It's just the contrast is interesting to me. Like, on one hand, we've got projects like Hydropool to open source, easy to deploy Bitcoin mining pool that you can configure any way you want. And on the other hand, you've got Ocean sending legal threats to miners telling them how they need to run their operations. Otherwise, they're gonna face legal enforcement. It's just crazy. That is. I think there's a clear winner here, and I know where I'm hedging my bets.
[01:49:43] Unknown:
You just reminded me of something that a message you sent, Scott, earlier when we were helping out, Isabella put together her her script for this, history lesson on on mining and Bitmain and that whole fuckery. But, a lot of these mega miners, like, have contracts to use certain pools. I had never thought of that.
[01:50:04] Unknown:
Yeah. This is what I've heard from several people, and it's not, like, published. It makes sense that they wouldn't publish it. But, I have heard that. I mean, when you think about it, you have a multimillion dollar publicly traded company, and all of their revenue comes from Bitcoin mining, via the pool that they use. You know, Mara uses their own pool, so they they can deal. They they mine they sold the mines so they can deal with it how they want, but all the rest of them, as far as I know, mine with a a pool that's a separate entity. Right.
So they're not just, you know, going and getting that retail, like, 2% fee or whatever that the pool has. Right? These things are negotiated. And they're gonna say, you know, we're bringing this much hash rate. You know, we need we need the FPPS, payout structure to be set up like this, and there's a negotiation and there's a contract. That's gonna be part of the, essentially, the assets of the Pubco miner is this agreement they have with their revenue provider. So yeah. I mean, they they absolutely have agreements. Now how easily they can switch it? I don't know for sure, but it's not gonna be like, oh, we just realized that, Foundry is doing something sketchy. Let's just switch right now. Yeah. It's it's much more institutional than that.
[01:51:32] Unknown:
See, I've heard so I first heard about this from, Bob Burnett on Twitter. He said something to the effect of, you know, these large scale miners can't just change mining pools on the fly. And so I asked some people who are executives at large scale mining companies, and one of them told me the complete opposite. He said he said, no. Actually, we have a fiduciary duty to switch mining pools on the fly if x, y, and z bad things happen. Like, we they they have a responsibility to ensure that, they switch. So I I I don't know I don't know what what the truth is. It's probably somewhere in the middle, but I I think that if, any of these large scale miners really needed to change their where their hash rate was pointed to, they could. I think they've they've definitely got clauses that allow them to do that. I don't know what those clauses are, but I think they exist.
[01:52:40] Unknown:
Either way, it's just another example of no one has any fucking idea what's going on.
[01:52:46] Unknown:
Yeah. For real. Well, I mean, I some something tells me that those clauses by which they have the fiduciary duty to switch if they're broken is not, you know, pool is censoring transactions or, pool is, you know, getting too large. I think that's the big deal. Right? Is that if the pool gets too large, that they have the potential to, act poorly. Right. You know, that that doesn't necessarily affect their bottom line. In fact, it might adversely affect their bottom line to switch off that pool, which they're getting a sweetheart deal from.
[01:53:25] Unknown:
Wow. I don't know.
[01:53:28] Unknown:
And yet solo miners still hit blocks, like the nerd x q plus plus.
[01:53:34] Unknown:
That was so cool. I love to see that. Yeah. It was it was really neat. And it was, it was especially cool because the person that hit this block, was running public pool self hosted.
[01:53:49] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. So this is public pool second block. Right? Public pool second block, first time solo mind.
[01:53:56] Unknown:
Nice.
[01:53:59] Unknown:
Oh, no. Sorry. I took that back. No. No. Okay. It was it's the nerd queue access second block first time solo mine. It's public pool second block, but first one with, like, a small open source miner.
[01:54:12] Unknown:
Oh, what was the first miner on public pool's first block? It was,
[01:54:18] Unknown:
it it was a much higher hash rate.
[01:54:20] Unknown:
Oh, okay. Okay. So they had, like, a, like, an s 19 or something
[01:54:26] Unknown:
run by I think they had They were self hosting public pool. S nineteens. Yeah. And they were self Gotcha. So that that was neat. But this one was, yeah, it was an open source miner. It was the near in QAX, which is a very awesome open source fork of the BitX.
[01:54:47] Unknown:
That's very sweet. It's happening.
[01:54:50] Unknown:
It was interesting, though. This guy, like, posted about it and, like, kinda came forward and was like, yeah. It was me. He posted about it on Reddit, which I can't read because Reddit does blocks Mullvad. Yeah. Yeah. That's bad. Fortunate. So I haven't read it, but several people screen shared it or, you know, captured it, showed a picture of it. But he was like, yeah. It was me. And he, like, told about his whole setup, which is obviously neat to hear. I wouldn't necessarily recommend coming forward if he sold a line of block, but he said he was gonna pay off his mortgage.
[01:55:23] Unknown:
That's amazing.
[01:55:26] Unknown:
Mortgage is cheap debt. He shouldn't do that. Yeah. I kinda feel like if you have that that, subsidized secured mortgage.
[01:55:34] Unknown:
Yeah. I think I'd rather not have the debt, though.
[01:55:39] Unknown:
Either way, this is financial advice.
[01:55:41] Unknown:
Yeah. For sure. No. Everything we say is financial advice.
[01:55:47] Unknown:
Yeah. That's super cool. Should I go through the Hashers?
[01:55:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Let's hear them.
[01:55:54] Unknown:
Alright. On Link Coin, shout out to Schnitzel Fish Tank Axe, Scott Offord from Open Hash Foundation, and Scott Offord from Bitcoin Mining World, and a new one, shout out to Tubaloo, who I was engaging with on x. He, he figured out a different way to talk to the Avalon Q's or mini three baseboard heater through home assistant with the the shell scripts. Oh, cool. So, I hope he shares some more about that because hopefully, we can learn from one another how to make this easier to do. But, you know, he was just brute forcing it. New to home assistant. Respect, man. That's awesome.
[01:56:30] Unknown:
Hell, yeah. This is the way.
[01:56:33] Unknown:
On solo c k pool, I have shout out to free cat is pain, life is misery, damn you, Scott. It's all your fault. JK still love you.
[01:56:43] Unknown:
So I Yeah. I I sort of, like, off handedly mentioned to, Keith Mukai that, FreeCAD is better than, Fusion three sixty because it's free and open source and doesn't license lock you into their cloud, and their SaaS model, but that it's a little rough. Yeah. FreeCAD's a little rough around the edges. Yeah. Keith just, like, went all in. He he, like, dug all in. He just posted today these, like, rad seed center, sunglasses that he three d printed. They're super cool. So, yeah. Shout out to him for just digging in and figuring it out because it is the way. And he did the design in FreeCAD? Yeah. Nice. With a trooper. Yeah. FreeCAD is is rough.
It's really hard to use, but, yeah. It's free. It's getting better fast.
[01:57:35] Unknown:
That's good. Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself. Shout out. Tried and true. Schnitzel wall axe, wood miners bit axe, rock paper bitcoin.fm, and two bits one block. Thank you for donating hash rate on social media. Name. I don't know who put that name there, but that one's funny.
[01:57:57] Unknown:
You are a funny person.
[01:58:00] Unknown:
On public pool, also two bits one block. Setting it up. Double shout out.
[01:58:08] Unknown:
How much hash rate is it? Is it like a bid ax on one and a bid ax on another or what?
[01:58:14] Unknown:
So 950 giga hash and 514 giga hash.
[01:58:20] Unknown:
I bet those are bit access. What do you think, Scott? Sounds like it. It's probably a, an Ultra or a Supra.
[01:58:27] Unknown:
Yeah. Hardestblocks.org. That is a cool site. We checked it out last. Pod and Stalin's bit axe. Thank you for donating Hashrate on Public Pool. And finally, on Ocean, shout out to Bible Huddle, forced, reckless apotheosis, apotheosis, mining. You can just build things. Apotheosis. Apotheosis. Jesus Christ. Sorry for using the lord's name in vain. Average bid acts. Because Andy proof of print, BitX won. Oh, also, shout out to Andy. He was the first one to secure his heat punk twenty twenty six ticket. Let's go. Hell, yeah.
[01:59:14] Unknown:
Wait. They're on sale?
[01:59:18] Unknown:
I gotta email you guys because I want you on panels. So it's coming differently to you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Teaser. Reckless Systems, watch this space. Seventeenth white paper day. That's right. Coming up Halloween. Zarkasay Hash Hub. BitX wannabe just an s 17 pro. And two bits one block again to wrap it up for eco. Hell, yeah. Thank you, guys. Two bits one block. That's a lot of hashers. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:59:48] Unknown:
I've got, three little bit access running in here. I've got a two zero five, a four zero one, and a six zero one, six zero two.
[01:59:58] Unknown:
Nice. You got the whole fleet.
[02:00:00] Unknown:
Yeah. I got them all pointed to the test ins test instance of Hydropool.
[02:00:05] Unknown:
I'm gonna do that right after this. I'm gonna do that right after this too.
[02:00:08] Unknown:
Yeah. I got some machines to, point at it.
[02:00:12] Unknown:
If you go to test.hydropool.org, you can see the dashboard for the pool and how the PPLNS distribution is is changing as more addresses sign in or sign in. I mean, point hash is what I mean. Oh, sweet. There there is no sign in process. I mean
[02:00:32] Unknown:
So Yeah. This is a good dashboard.
[02:00:35] Unknown:
Yeah. He Junglee did that with, Prometheus and Grafana. So Prometheus is the database component, and then Grafana is pulling from that database to display the time based variables in different formats. And, I think users are gonna like it. It's clean. It's simple. I really like it. I'm really happy with how hydropool is turning out.
[02:01:03] Unknown:
Good job, Junglee, for pulling this off. Like, that's that's really rad. Yeah. For Is he gonna be able to make it to to NEMS?
[02:01:10] Unknown:
That's a great question. And I don't know the answer, but I'll find out. It'd be awesome to see him. Yeah. I hope he is because we're planning on featuring all of the two fifty six foundation projects. So we'll be hashing with the number one. It'll be controlled by a Libra board, which will have the Mujina firmware on it, and it'll be pointed at hydro pool. What?
[02:01:34] Unknown:
Yeah. Just gotta get those parts out of jail. Yeah. Customs. Man.
[02:01:40] Unknown:
Yeah. Tell me about it. I'm working on it. So I'll, I'll definitely keep you guys posted as I make progress.
[02:01:50] Unknown:
Fantastic.
[02:01:53] Unknown:
Two hour mark, gents. Alright. Alright. What what's the network cache right now? Fourteen days.
[02:02:02] Unknown:
Well, mempool does one week. Oh, okay. 1.12 Zeta Hash.
[02:02:10] Unknown:
Man, people are just plugging machines all over the place. Insane. I would love to know what the, like, breakdown is,
[02:02:17] Unknown:
like, machine wise across the whole network. Yeah. Like, how many of those are s nines or Yeah. S nineteens or bit axis?
[02:02:27] Unknown:
Like, a month or two ago, I'd oh, it's on because you can look at the the estimated total energy consumption on that Cambridge analytics dashboard. And if you take the total hash rate and divide by that energy consumption, you get the average machine efficiency.
[02:02:41] Unknown:
I don't think it's Cambridge Analytics, but yes. I can. What is it? Cambridge University? What's the difference? Cave Cambridge Analytics was like that intel company that worked for Facebook to, like That's right. Rig the elections and shit. Oh, yeah. It was definitely that one.
[02:02:58] Unknown:
It's I'll get it right right now. Bitcoin dashboard. That's how in tune I am. Yeah. CCAF, Cambridge Digital Money Dashboard. Yeah. Blockchain network sustainability. Yeah. Because they're trying to track how much carbon we consume, unfortunately. But, anyways, they're estimating 26 gigawatts, 26 o one gigawatts for Bitcoin.
[02:03:27] Unknown:
You always gotta take that stuff with a grain of salt, because, like, even, like, right after the Chinese mining ban in '20 the 2021, that Cambridge University website still had, like, some 60% of Bitcoin network hash rate coming from China.
[02:03:46] Unknown:
So There's probably a lag. Yeah.
[02:03:48] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't well and and also you gotta think about, like, how they're working backwards to figure out that energy number. Like, there's no way for them to know for sure.
[02:04:05] Unknown:
So at best It's research, Iko. What are you talking about?
[02:04:10] Unknown:
This is Alright. Alright. I'm kidding. I mean, common sense would tell you.
[02:04:16] Unknown:
I just say that because I laugh and point fingers at all the people who's just point to studies as their their source of truth for life. Yeah. Because they're all manipulated and they're all fake. And education's a giant circle jerk.
[02:04:29] Unknown:
Yeah. I agree. I wish I had never wasted my time or money on college.
[02:04:36] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:04:38] Unknown:
There's a So with that, kids, drop out and work on Bitcoin. There you go. That is financial advice.
[02:04:49] Unknown:
Guaranteed returns.
[02:04:51] Unknown:
A 100%. A 100%. We're having fun.
[02:04:57] Unknown:
What were you gonna say, Scott?
[02:05:00] Unknown:
Oh, I was just thinking about trying to figure out what machines are present on the network. I still contend that if you looked at the Extronauts two from on chain Yeah. I was yeah. I think I think there's some there's some hints there as to what machine, solve the block.
[02:05:19] Unknown:
Because, like, certain chips only look at certain ranges of numbers.
[02:05:27] Unknown:
Yeah. The nonce the regular nonce. There there there is some data there and there was a group that did a study. This was several years ago. They did a study looking at the nonces and they they figured out the patterns of nonces from different machines. And then we're using that to kind of back out from the actual nonce that solved the block what machine it was. I think I think we could get some additional data from the extra nonce too, which is, it's a a bigger number that's stored in the Coinbase portion of the transaction, but it it's also controlled by the mining, firmware.
So there's gonna be differing patterns of how how often the externonts two is incremented based on the hash rate of the machine.
[02:06:15] Unknown:
Do you think there's any reason to not wanna fingerprint your machine, say, if you were building a firmware, right, or a miner? Would you be for or against this possibility of fingerprinting?
[02:06:28] Unknown:
I think about this a lot. So this has come up with a bid ax. We we could definitely put something into the extra notes too. Like, each miner could could that says, like, there's a bit ax. Like, we could put an arbitrary number in there because you get, like, eight bytes. We don't need that much. So we could put in a byte or or two that, you know, says that uniquely identifies the machine that solved the block as a Bitaxe. I think that would be neat from my own, you know, my own knowledge. But, yeah, there's there's also some risk there of anytime you're fingerprinting or uniquely identifying which miner, did it if it if it did get added, it would certainly have to be opt in or optional.
[02:07:16] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:07:17] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I I can't really think of any concrete examples, but I'm sure the parasitic state at some point could figure out a way to use that information against the individual. Yeah.
[02:07:30] Unknown:
But you know who who does know this is the pools. Right? Because every miner, when they connect to a pool, it sends, like, a user agent. It says, like, what machine it is, and it says what firmware version it's running. So the pools have this data. Just for their analytics? Like, they have it. Right? They get it every time the miner connects to the pool, it sends this information to them. So they know what hardware and firmware all the machines are running. I've talked with the guys at Ocean about this, and their stance is like, well, we don't save that. It's like, okay.
I wish we'll just trust that. But, yeah, the pool the pools, whether they save it or not, do have access to this information. That's that's another reason to self host your own, mining pool is that Yeah. You can Yeah. That was
[02:08:24] Unknown:
that was part of what informed our testing of hydro pool was that we set up a test server and asked we wanted to make sure that the server could work with a range of Stratum clients, so different mining hardware.
[02:08:40] Unknown:
Right.
[02:08:41] Unknown:
And because, like I was saying last week, like, they all communicate differently and, like, put stuff in different orders. So some of them could communicate with the server, and we found, like, others that wouldn't communicate. But what was key for us was the ability for us to monitor which, hardware and firmware, versions were having issues so that we could, like, go in and and fix things and check those off. And, so yeah. I mean, that's something I think jungly I don't know where they they used to be available. Like, you used to be able to grab those log files from test.hydropool.org. So, you know, the intention was that other developers would be able to use those log files because unless you're running a Bitcoin mining pool, you never see those logs.
But they can be useful for developers. So, I don't know where Junglee put those logs, but they're somewhere. And, all the, like, personally identifying information related to, like, geolocation, like IP addresses, those are all, removed. So there is no IP address information in those logs. Just, like, the basic, hardware and firmware info.
[02:10:06] Unknown:
If you go to web.publicpool.io, and scroll down, you can see a list of the type of miner of every type of miner that's connected. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's really interesting. It's informative. You can see that there's, like, a 100,000 Nerd Miners connected.
[02:10:23] Unknown:
Oh, man.
[02:10:25] Unknown:
It's really Woah. Yeah. If if you add up the the Nerdminer and the NMX, which is just some, like, knockoff Nerdminer, it's about a 100,000. And the total hash rate is less than one bit ax, for a 100,000 miners. That That's so crazy. Power of ASICs. But it is neat. And so what he's doing is just, collating all those those, user agents that each miner sends back and showing them. I don't think any other pool does that, but they certainly have access to that data.
[02:10:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Wait. There right now are 72,088 Nerd Miners with a total hash rate of one Terahash.
[02:11:10] Unknown:
A one Terahash? It's that much?
[02:11:12] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:11:13] Unknown:
Wow. Of the Nerd Miners? No way.
[02:11:18] Unknown:
That's what it says. Really? 72,000 currently working total hash rate. One point o. Yeah.
[02:11:28] Unknown:
Wow. I can't believe it's that much.
[02:11:31] Unknown:
CPU miner, 1,400 CPU miners, 19 gigahash.
[02:11:37] Unknown:
Wow. There was a dude who came through Bitcoin Park recently. I was out the day he came through, but a friend, Rob Hamilton, who started Anchor Watch. He was sharing pictures with me. This guy developed a keyboard that mines Bitcoin, and he open sourced it. So it's it's an MIT license. And you can, like, make this keyboard that mines Bitcoin in between your keystrokes. With just on the CPU that's in it? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. But in on in the keyboard. In the keyboard. Yeah. It's all in the keyboard.
[02:12:23] Unknown:
That's sweet.
[02:12:26] Unknown:
I gotta talk to Ben. I think something's wrong with that hash rate calculation. Someone must have gotten lucky.
[02:12:33] Unknown:
I think if I'm It should be less.
[02:12:35] Unknown:
I think if I'm doing my math right, that's 72 gigahash per NerdMiner. That's not right.
[02:12:44] Unknown:
There was that, NerdMiner killer hash. There was that issue where the NerdMiner scam firmware was, like submitting multiple, like, submitting the same share multiple times Yeah. To make it look like the hash rate was higher. Yeah. That was an m minor actually. That's
[02:13:06] Unknown:
Oh, okay. That one. Yeah. But Ben fixed that on public pool's end. Yeah. He said he fixed it. So I'm curious what's going on. I mean, it's all based on on luck. So if you get just absurdly lucky Nerd Miner, it could make the hash rate look higher. The hash rate True. Yeah. Or or something else. Or maybe his server's just borking due to all the connections from these little things. But, yeah, that's not that's not the right total hash rate. It can't be. Yeah. But I was thinking is it'd be neat, now we're we're working on this on the firmware, whether it's Magina or ESP miner on the Bitaxe, we should just have that user agent configurable.
Maybe it defaults to the right value, but you could type in whatever you want. Mhmm.
[02:13:56] Unknown:
As your hardware and firmware? Yeah.
[02:13:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Why not? It's trying to get sent back to the server. Like, you put whatever you want. You could put your a, you could make your Nerd Miner look like it's a s 23 hydro.
[02:14:10] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm gonna make mine a 1994 Toyota pickup. Yes.
[02:14:18] Unknown:
I like Dude, I ordered a a bunch of cool, like, Toyota Hilux graphic tees with 50 cals on the back of them. They're arriving today. Can't wait. But you have a Nissan. I know. No one makes merch for the Nissan hard body, dude. Oh, man. Don't do that. The cool part is my truck's niche. No one owns it.
[02:14:37] Unknown:
No. You have a badass truck. Don't get me wrong. Nissans are are sick. But don't put a bunch of Toyota
[02:14:45] Unknown:
instead of Toyota. Too. I have a four Runner.
[02:14:48] Unknown:
Put that stuff on the four Runner then. Yeah. That's true. It probably won't fit.
[02:14:57] Unknown:
Nice. Alright, gents. Well, I gotta wrap up here. Unfortunately, I have to do some mining.
[02:15:04] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm super busy and gotta go, so I'll see you guys later.
[02:15:10] Unknown:
Yes. Me too. Alright. That's a wrap.
[02:15:16] Unknown:
Good rip.
Welcome to pod two fifty six episode 92.
[00:00:07] Unknown:
Damn. 92.
[00:00:09] Unknown:
On a 100. My gosh. 100. How's it going, guys? Not a whole lot. How are you doing?
[00:00:17] Unknown:
I'm doing quite well. Happy to be here. Happy to see y'all.
[00:00:21] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
How's, how's weather in your neck of the woods?
[00:00:25] Unknown:
It's getting cold. You got a hoodie on. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting cold. Yep. It's, really cold. Winter is coming. We were in the twenties this morning in Colorado. Who are we? 28.
[00:00:37] Unknown:
Buddy. Fahrenheit?
[00:00:39] Unknown:
Yeah. That's not right. Now it's 55.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Sunny. I love it. I would take zero degrees in Colorado over 32 degrees in Nashville any day of the week. Any day of the week.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
No humidity, and the sun keeps you nice and toasty. Yeah, bro.
[00:00:57] Unknown:
In Nashville, like, when it's cold and the sun, like, comes out from behind the clouds, it doesn't change anything. Like, you're still just miserably cold, like, and cutting to the core
[00:01:07] Unknown:
sucks. I remember in college, I I had a roommate from Palo Alto, and we would I was up in Wisconsin, and he would get, like, bad seasonal depression. It's just dark and gray for seven months. And I always thought he was being a bitch. And then I moved to Colorado, and I was like, wow. This is amazing. Yeah. Ugh. Colorado is cold AF. Yeah. But it's sunny. You're Californian. You know?
[00:01:35] Unknown:
Yeah. I grew up by the by the coast. It doesn't get that cold.
[00:01:39] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:01:41] Unknown:
Was it humid out there though?
[00:01:45] Unknown:
In California? Yeah. No. Never. Not even one single day for my entire life.
[00:01:51] Unknown:
Wow. I mean, it doesn't happen.
[00:01:56] Unknown:
The first time I experienced humidity, it was really weird. Like, it was raining. I'm like, oh, dang. It's gonna be cold. I was actually going to Australia for the first time. I, like, you know, we're landing, and I'm like, oh, it's raining. Like, bummer. It's gonna be cold. And I got off the plane. It was like, what? You could, like, bite the air? Like, I I wasn't even familiar with the concept if you could be.
[00:02:19] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's rough. Muggy.
[00:02:22] Unknown:
I don't know. I like it now. It's it's humid AF in the South. I kinda like it. It's novelty still, though.
[00:02:30] Unknown:
What's been, going on this week, fellas?
[00:02:34] Unknown:
You tell us, mister Celebrity being featured in Forbes magazine. I saw that. I was like, man, I know that guy. Shout out to Roger.
[00:02:45] Unknown:
Met him, got to chat with him quite a bit, in Nashville a couple weeks back at the HRF event. And, really cool guy, really keen interest and a lot of knowledge on the mining industry and a lot of the history on these big miners. And so after chatting about the heat punk stuff, he just called me after the fact and said he was writing an article, and it would go in Forbes. And I was like, no way. So we chat for thirty minutes, and he featured a handful of heat punk projects, which is cool. Colin Sullivan from Mint Green up in Vancouver. Yep. They have a really cool project working with the mayor to get this big community pool heated, that's closed for half the year because it's too cold and they can't afford to heat it. And the proposal out for that project, more of like a at a municipality level is to, hey. We can afford to do this if we do it this way, which is really cool to see. And just talking through I I liked how Roger framed it too. It's like all the FUD. This kind of eliminates the FUD. Mhmm. It doesn't use too much energy if you're gonna buy heat anyways, which we've been saying. So it was cool to get featured. Good to see that narrative making its way into the headlines.
[00:03:56] Unknown:
Yeah. And I saw he gave, Heatbit a shout out as well. Yes. Of course. Of the two fifty six Foundation.
[00:04:05] Unknown:
Indeed.
[00:04:06] Unknown:
And, who else did he give a shout? There was somebody else.
[00:04:11] Unknown:
Yeah. There was Proto was mentioned. Oh, yeah. You mentioned Proto
[00:04:15] Unknown:
Yeah. Coming coming in hot with their ASIC chips disrupting Bitmain and their proprietary shenanigans.
[00:04:24] Unknown:
Super cool. I mean, I think, yeah, we're we're getting the info out there, the efforts, all of our 10,000,000 listeners on this show. Right? That's right. The narrative is starting
[00:04:35] Unknown:
to shift. The winds of change are in the air. Can you feel it, Scott?
[00:04:40] Unknown:
I can feel it. I I was very excited to see in that article that Roger touched on sort of the the problem with, you know, Bitmain's dominance and them not making any equipment for for, heat reuse. Right. That was cool. I think that's an important point. In a mainstream platform too. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:59] Unknown:
Yeah. And he contrasted it with Canon who's doing,
[00:05:04] Unknown:
like, designs specifically for heating applications. Right? And I've heard that's been a huge success for them. I was chatting with Will Foxley. He was here this week from BlockSpace Media, and he was telling me because he tracks a lot of the the mining revenue and the publicly traded companies and whatnot. That's what he's in tune with. And it he said it was something like a third of their revenue, the home mining stuff, which is wild.
[00:05:28] Unknown:
No kidding. Yeah. That's wild.
[00:05:32] Unknown:
Yeah. Is is, Canon, Canaan, they're one of these companies that makes a lot of different yeah. They make, a bunch of different semiconductors, not necessarily Bitcoin mining. Correct. Yeah. I wonder, is that third of their revenue like the Bitcoin mining department? Or is it That's a good question.
[00:05:51] Unknown:
Yeah. Because I also know they have, like, Canon US, which I think is their business for repair. I'm not exactly sure how it's all broken down. A lot of these companies, it's been, an interesting learning experience for me. They're they're, like, have all these nested structures, and it's much more complicated than you think it is at face value. Gotta hustle to survive.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
I was I was looking for a, for a different processor to make, like, a small Linux board, like, a control board type thing. And I landed on this very cheap, Linux, you know, processor chip, a, an ARM, Cortex a chip called Sophgo, s o p h g o. And I was like, man, that's really cheap. Like, this looks cool and there's, like, some designs and information about it. And, then I realized that SoftGo is, basically, like, embargoed. You can't import it into The United States because they, work with Huawei, and I believe it's a subsidiary of Bitmain.
[00:07:04] Unknown:
Interesting.
[00:07:05] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:07:08] Unknown:
I heard some crazy thing through the grapevine this week about Bitmain, which I just put in the notes before the show. But, I heard that their break in period happens to be exactly as long as it takes them to make the money back that it cost them to build the machine.
[00:07:25] Unknown:
Of course.
[00:07:26] Unknown:
And then they sell them at 100% profit. Right. Because they already made their money back to make it.
[00:07:34] Unknown:
So Because they're more efficient than all the other miners
[00:07:38] Unknown:
out there on the network, you mean? Yeah. No one's got the s 20 threes yet. Right. Couple people, but Yep. I mean, what other product can you do that with? Right? These are money printers. And so and if you make them, you have this strategic advantage of what you do with them before you ship them out. Right.
[00:07:57] Unknown:
Who has the s 23? Tell me. I want one I want access. I I wanna You got a part of one. Person besides Bitmain. Yeah.
[00:08:10] Unknown:
That's so wild. I believe it. Yeah. I believe it too.
[00:08:15] Unknown:
They're, they're they're dirt bags, dude. Like, who's who's that chick that we met during the HRF event? Can we talk about what she's working on? Or is that, like, should we not spoil the surprise?
[00:08:34] Unknown:
I guess I'm not sure which project you're talking about. Yeah. There were so many cool people.
[00:08:39] Unknown:
She was sitting, across from you when
[00:08:44] Unknown:
you Yes. When we had dinner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can talk about that. It's coming out. Isa, Isabela Santos, who does a lot of cool work, with Bitcoin magazine and those short form videos documenting happenings in the Bitcoin space. And I think it was really cool. Iko and I were sitting with her at at a at a dinner. And, when we started diving into a lot of the stuff we talk about on this show, she was just mind blown. No idea. And I think that's a a common story for many Bitcoiners. They're just not in tune with it, which makes sense. Mining's kinda out there. Not every Bitcoiner it's already hard to do at the house. Right? It's getting easier. But and then to actually be in the weeds and and understand why things are the way they are. So we've been working with her, giving her some info. There was a big group chat over the past weekend. Thanks for all the insights, Scott, and Rob, and Nico, and everybody was helping out. But she's put together quite the narrative, which I'm really excited to see see come out. I was so excited to see that. Like, this is gonna be cool. Any any one of these sort of,
[00:09:46] Unknown:
I don't know, just, like, overlaps between the Bitcoiners and the miners, like, kinda bringing them together
[00:09:54] Unknown:
is, is pretty exciting for me. Yeah. And the the conversation came up because she was asking, like, is the are are large miners really a cabal? And is this, like, really an issue, like the two fifty six foundation claims? And so we started talking about, well, yeah, like, Bitmain has 90 plus percent market dominance. They've been known bad actors in the past, and we brought up the examples of amp bleed and ASIC boost. And and you could just see the wheels start turning inside her head. And and then the idea came up to, like, turn it into, like, a short form video to talk about that history. And I think it's a I think it'll be a banger. Total banger. Yeah.
[00:10:38] Unknown:
Yeah. That's gonna be sweet.
[00:10:42] Unknown:
Going back to Canan, you had, you've got a couple of their units integrated at the space. Yes. And you've been working on some home assistant documentation. Mhmm. What's going on there?
[00:10:57] Unknown:
What's going on is Canon has public APIs, which are awesome, for their home miners. So the Avalon q, which is the desktop tower looking one, the mini three, which is the baseboard looking one, and then the the nano, which is a a little desk one, like a 140 watts. Kinda looks like the brains mini miner. And and they have public documentation on their APIs. And so that's where we went in and said, okay. Well, let's integrate these into the smart home, IoT, thermostats, automation, schedules, all this fun stuff. And Dylan, who's, my cofounder at Xergi, he's a wizard at Home Assistant. He's put in his ten thousand hours.
And so we were able to get control in connection to all of our smart home stack even though the canons aren't all in PyAsync. So I was messaging you guys a little bit about this because the PyAsync library, that that package, that service is fantastic in Home Assistant with HASMiner from Schnitzel, where you literally just get the the integration. It's a plug in for Home Assistant from the community store. So you'd get you'd go from the GitHub repo, and then you put in the IP address and it identifies. It kind of fingerprints the miner, and you answer a couple other questions like what's the max wattage and what's the minimum wattage of this thing. Right? You click enter, and it brings in all the stats, and it lets you send commands. Not all commands, but, the the the canons weren't weren't built out yet. Or I think the Mini three was, but there's a mistake in it. I need to, do a pull request or talk to Brett.
It thinks that the maximum hash rate the unit's off. So it thinks the maximum hash rate is 40, 40,000,000,000,000 terahash instead of 40 terahash.
[00:12:46] Unknown:
Awesome.
[00:12:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So it it doesn't work properly, but that's where Dylan was able to do all this with, Node RED, which you can think of like block diagrams for any automations. So instead of, a YAML file, which is Home Assistant standard or shell commands, you can just kind of create block diagrams. One grabs the IP. One sends a command to turn on and off. And so we documented how to do this with Node RED, which we think is kind of this middle ground as, like, an a user intuitive way. If you don't have a lot of development experience, you don't wanna actually write lines of code. We just teach you how to build these blocks so you can push commands to the miners, send out the API variable commands. And so that's step one. Step two is gonna be reading back the statistics from the Canon, and then you're off to the races. And you can create dashboards, connect to thermostats, all this other fun stuff. And it made me think. I I put a tweet out, and I was messaging you guys a little bit about, like, the happy medium between Node RED and PyAsync and shell commands because you can kinda skin this cat many ways on how to talk to these things.
And I think that, you know, for smart home devices, the ideal is it's like, I love HASMiner and Piasek. You just put in the IP and you tell it what miner it is and you're done. And it it gets all the right variables. Like, I know the canons have eco and super. I know they have heating mode and and non heating mode, like mining mode, where it responds to a temperature or it doesn't. So there's there's unique things, unique variables, unique API calls to these machines that, like, an s 19 doesn't have. Right? And so that's where it's gonna be awesome to get more contribution and management, and and maintainers on PyASIC, ASIC RS, things like that because that becomes easier. But right now, it's also helpful to just teach people how to do this either in block diagram with with Node RED or, shell. I wanna document how to do it, like, just with shell commands and and YAML scripts where you can just copy and paste a line of code, and then you have a little integration for that miner.
[00:14:52] Unknown:
What kinda commands are you sending it? Like like temperature, adequate, turn off, temperature, too cold, turn back on?
[00:15:00] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So our automations like, the first thing we did was, it comes with this heating mode where it responds to has the the mini three, the baseboard one has two temperature sensors. It has a temp sensor at the exhaust, which is around a 135 degrees Fahrenheit. That's the warm air coming out of it. And then it has a temp sensor on the intake air, which is right beneath it. And this is like a small device. It's maybe four inches wide, five inches tall, and 30 inches long. And so those temp sensors are, like, literally four inches apart. And so when you're trying to command your room temperature to be 70 degrees Right.
The air right under the miner is not actually indicative of the air in the room. And so literally behind me on this glass wall, we just have a little ZigBee radio temperature sensor in the corner, which is the opposite corner from the minor, which is out of the shot. And so we just linked those two together, and we said, actually, instead of responding to the temperature underneath you, respond to the on the other side of the room, and it makes this room much better to control. But we've done a bunch of other fun automations like bringing in our real time solar flux, our PV wattage, our time of use billing, and real time hash price and hash value.
And we told it all the modes and all the stuff that Piasek would say, here's what you need to know about this miner. And in that automation, it determines in real time when it's free to mine Bitcoin, and it turns on and off then. That's awesome. A bunch of cool
[00:16:36] Unknown:
stuff. Hell, yeah. You're getting that space all wired up. All wired up for sure.
[00:16:41] Unknown:
We've got, like, 500 Terahash possible online right now. Dude, nice. Yeah. That's great. That's fun. This is It is fun. Makes me think
[00:16:54] Unknown:
there could be some value in, like, a, like, a miner control platform, but not just for, like, managing a fleet of miners that are, you know, grid connected or whatever, but for, like, you know, managing all the miners as a part of this heating or, you know, your excess energy mining strategy, like a very versatile platform that obviously can communicate with all the miners over PyASIC, but then also it has, you know, baked in the ability to communicate with these home automation protocols and easily add external sensors. Yeah. It seems like Node RED would be a good way. So so you said you can make these home assistant plug ins with Node RED. Is that that's what you're doing?
[00:17:46] Unknown:
You could do anything with Node RED. You can you can think of it as another way to create your your automations, your linking things together. So, like, in that stuff we documented yesterday, it's literally just grab the IP, put that in a variable. Whatever button I press, it takes that I it takes the command I wanna send for that button, and it pushes it to that IP address. Yeah.
[00:18:14] Unknown:
Man, this would be a really cool box. Like, something that Yeah. You know, has the basics for communicating with, obviously, all your miners, but your, like, solar system charge controllers, with your, energy provider your electricity provider's API for pricing information.
[00:18:30] Unknown:
Oh, yeah.
[00:18:31] Unknown:
Right? Like Yeah. The the sort of oh, you got it right there. This is the box. What is that?
[00:18:39] Unknown:
This is what we're using, and we're trying to document and package all this so that you could just buy this. And so Looks like a Raspberry Pi in there. It is a Raspberry Pi five with an expansion board for NVMe. And then the other part of the expansion board is this radio antenna. This is just a Texas Instruments, ZigBee antenna. Okay. And so ZigBee is not Wi Fi. It has pretty good range through the house. And the ZigBee devices, like, that little temperature sensor, it literally just looks like an AirTag wall wart, and it lasts, like, three years battery.
[00:19:13] Unknown:
Oh, wow. What frequency is ZigBee?
[00:19:17] Unknown:
I don't know. Maybe Dylan's listening and will chime in in the chat.
[00:19:22] Unknown:
Does it have a good range and, like, it Like, 200, 300 meters. It's pretty good. I think CP is, like, that 900 megahertz ISM band in The US at least. Oh. Do they have to register with the FCC? I was wondering about that. No. You don't. So ISM bands is this sort of frequency band that has been allocated by the FCC for as long and as long as you stay under this power limit, it's free to use it for whatever you want. Kind of like 2.4 gigahertz is for Wi Fi and Bluetooth. Yeah. So there there's a whole range of stuff. Like, LoRa also operates in that 900 megahertz ISM band.
It's, yeah, I don't know. Like, the it's a little token from the FCC of, like, okay. Yeah. Just use this for whatever you want. Yeah. I think Z Wave is another option.
[00:20:12] Unknown:
This this airspace is is freedom territory.
[00:20:16] Unknown:
Yeah. It's kind of it's this this little token. Right? You know, the the the airwaves are supposed to be this public property, and the FCC manages it. And they have you know, you look at the whole spectrum and how they have it allocated. It's kind of pathetic. Pathetic. But, yeah, we just get these little slices. Yeah. Okay. Fine. You can use that. It reminds me of, like, if you've ever gone to, like, a Democratic or,
[00:20:39] Unknown:
Republican National Convention, like, out front, they'll have this, like, gated and walled and barricaded zone, and it's called, like, the free speech zone Oh, okay. Where, like, if you wanna, like, hold signs or, like, do any sort of, like, protesting or assembly, like, that's your designated space to do it in. Yeah. It's absolutely that.
[00:21:02] Unknown:
It's not niche, though. Like, what I thought was cool is, whoever lived in my apartment before me, my house that I'm renting, they, they left a bunch of ring devices all throughout motion sensors and cameras, and I took them down. I didn't know if they were watching me, and I realized they were all they're all Zigbee and Z Wave devices. Okay. But they talk to the little Ring box server that you get in your house, which puts everything back on ring the company's servers. Mhmm. Where this is that, it's literally the same products. I can with this in my house, I can buy all the zinc, the ring sensors and just have them talk to this with the ring plug in in Home Assistant.
And I'm just circumnavigating talking to their servers,
[00:21:50] Unknown:
which is awesome. That's great. Are you finding it has, like, good reliability, like, in proximity to, like, hard surfaces, like the glass or brick walls or upstairs to downstairs?
[00:22:02] Unknown:
I actually had a, like, a dead spot in my house, in the basement and, like, plaster walls. And I just bought a little wall wart, extender so you can have more antennas and and make your mesh network super easy the setup super easy.
[00:22:20] Unknown:
Is that, I'm not familiar with the wall wart extender. Is it similar to, like, the Wi Fi device that, like, sends the Wi Fi signal through your electrical lines? Where you, like, you, like, plug the box into, like, one outlet and it, like, uses your electrical lines to transmit from, like, your router.
[00:22:42] Unknown:
I don't think that's how it's working. I just plug it in, and it has a little antenna on it. And I think it's just talking to this antenna as the master, and it becomes a slave. Okay. But as far as I know,
[00:22:53] Unknown:
ZigBee is a a mesh networking protocol. So you could imagine having a repeater, that just joins the the mesh network. I see. Okay. It can sort of, like, extend that mesh. So it can it can relay packets through it without necessarily having to add any of its own data. But, you know, any any mesh node can extend the network. It just adds another hop.
[00:23:18] Unknown:
It's so cool. I mean, I know Dylan's got it set up too where if he has his windows open at his house with little window sensors that are ZigBee, it turns off the minors because why waste that or turns off the air conditioning if he if he's just opening a window. And so he doesn't have to go in and change anything. Like, he just opens a window and his air conditioning knows, oh, it must be nice outside. I'll turn off. And so the world is your oyster. And I think if we can productize this and make it easier with miners as IoT home gadgets, like, this is the future. It's gonna be awesome.
[00:23:50] Unknown:
I really like that that add on you have for that that box there that adds the the ZigBee protocol to it. That's that's really slick. I feel like that opens up a lot because there's so many ZigBee peripherals and things you can get that that will plug into that.
[00:24:10] Unknown:
They're cheap too. You can buy a 100 of them for a $100 on AliExpress.
[00:24:16] Unknown:
Nice. Well, it's an open it's an open protocol too, which is Yeah. Is good. So it's like you wanna make something that works on that, you just you need to follow the protocol, but you can just do it.
[00:24:27] Unknown:
Exactly. I'm working on getting all the, all of my incandescent light bulbs because I don't want the LED brain frying in my house. Dude, we've been doing the same thing, like, trying to get rid of all the LED lights. Yeah. But I can put my little outlet. I have just little Zigbee outlets, so I can control the the incandescent lights with Home Assistant. So it's like it's a smart light bulb, but it's not smart.
[00:24:53] Unknown:
Like, it makes it dimmable? Oh, you mean, like, you can turn it on and off. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.
[00:24:59] Unknown:
Sick.
[00:25:00] Unknown:
It is. It's really addicting.
[00:25:03] Unknown:
So there's a the the Espressif that makes the, microcontroller that's in the BitX, just came out with a new one called the c we use the s p 32 s three right now. They came out with a new one called the c six. It's it's neat in a lot of ways. It supports, five gigahertz Wi Fi, which is a nice touch. It also has a risk five, processor core in it. Oh. Cool. Yeah. But it also supports ZigBee. Wow. So that that could be pretty neat to, play around with.
[00:25:37] Unknown:
What's the deal with RISC five? It's like a open source processor
[00:25:42] Unknown:
design or Yeah. Protocol? It's it's a, yeah, it's a processor design. Sort of historically, there's like Intel, which is you know, they have an instruction set, meaning all the commands that control the processor, what the code gets compiled to. And Intel is it's closed. Right? Only Intel can make Intel chips and and AMD, they've, like, licensed it. For Is that x 86 in ARM? That's x x 86. Gotcha. So ARM is is different in that ARM just designs the processor, and and designs the instruction set. So anyone can well, not anyone. People license that, design from ARM.
ARM doesn't make any chips. They just, license it to people like Apple that make the, the, you know, the processors in iPhones and MacBooks. They license it to tons of people. It's also in microcontrollers, but it's not open. So you have to, like, you know, go to ARM and sign a big fat check with them and deal to get access to it and be able to make processors that are ARM cores. And they also charge a licensing fee. So I I I've heard even in, like, little microcontrollers, it can be, like, a dollar per chip that you sell, licensing fee. Woah. And it's it's totally locked down.
So RISC five is a is a project that's been around for a long time, but it's just starting to gain steam now, I think. And it is an open standard. So, yeah, it's the the design of it is open source, sort of like what digital logic you need to implement to make a processor like this as well as the instruction set. So, yeah, it's permissionless. Like, anyone can just grab this and go fab a processor or, you know, make compilers for it. And a lot of a lot of people are starting to do that. It's starting to happen. I I feel like it hasn't hit the the mainstream yet, but it's coming. You see more and more, you know, chip, semiconductor companies making chips that have RISC V cores in there.
It's got good Rust support as far as compilers go, of course, c and all those things. But, yeah, it's pretty exciting. The ESP 30 twos in the past, you know, they're the the cheapest, like, Wi Fi chips you can get. And to make them cheaper, they have avoided ARM, which is what everyone else does. So for a long time, they were using this other esoteric processor core design called Tensilica. It is just like you know, it's just a cheaper one, but it's not open and you still have to license it. So I think the kind of people that were in that realm, like Espressif, are just shoo ins for going to risk five. Mhmm. Because they're they're trying to make it, you know, cheaper.
So it makes sense that Espress is switching over. There's lots of other companies are doing it. There have been sort of projects to make, like, Raspberry Pi level, processors based on RISC V, and you can get them. They're still a little bit iffy, hard to get, and not quite as performant as Arm, but I think it's getting there. I've seen a lot of progress in that realm. So it's it's a neat project.
[00:29:13] Unknown:
I know it's something Start nine is super interested in, which is cool.
[00:29:17] Unknown:
I mean, you don't wanna be reliant on having to get some license from Arm to to make your processors.
[00:29:26] Unknown:
Well and I think there's there's, like, persistent criticism in especially in the Bitcoin space among, like, open source projects where if there's reliance on, like, an ESP 32, it's closed. You don't know exactly what it's doing. And, therefore, if you have something critical that that system is controlling, you you're not able to truly verify everything that it's doing. And so there's an element of trust there. And so I think it's sounds like and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like, you know, with RISC five, this could potentially mitigate some of those critiques. Right?
[00:30:21] Unknown:
I think so. I think so. Because when you have proprietary processor cores like that, you always a lot oftentimes, you end up with these things called binary blobs Right. Which are like some bit of code, from the the maker of the processor that you need to run-in order to get all the features out of it. And, in the past, those have been closed sourced. Like, they're they're just provided to you as a binary. And that makes it it makes it really hard to know exactly everything that's going on or to change it if you need different functionality. So I think the trend with risk five is to have those binary blobs not be close source, not be binaries, to have it to have it more
[00:31:07] Unknown:
open. Could you have a risk five ASIC?
[00:31:12] Unknown:
Or is that different? Like a mining ASIC? Yeah. Mining ASICs don't need CPUs. Right. They just do one thing. Yeah. They just they just do shot Your control board, though, could use The control board. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. And and there
[00:31:26] Unknown:
are RISC five, compute modules that adhere to that two one hundred pin standard that we implemented on the Libre board. Mhmm. And so from, like, day one, that was something that Scott had brought up with Libre board. Like, you know, we shouldn't box users into telling them which processor they have to use on their Libre board. It it should be standardized so that they could bring a RISC five compute module. They could, bring x 86. They could bring ARM, whatever it is. My dog's drinking water in the background. I don't know if you can hear that or not. But
[00:32:08] Unknown:
The yeah. That's that's really exciting because the the processors on on, like, Raspberry Pi and on these compute modules, they're different than, like, a microcontroller that might be in the Bittaxe. They're they're much more complicated processors. You need to have fast RAM associated with it. You need to be able to access large amounts of storage. They have complicated power domain structures. So having something like the compute module, it it has everything you need on one board. So it's kinda like plug and play. And and it's if they adhere to that standard that Iko was talking about, you could just swap it in without having to change any underlying hardware. So I think that's particularly exciting.
[00:32:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm stoked. That'd be sweet.
[00:32:56] Unknown:
Yeah. Was it we were looking at, there's a couple companies that make RISC five compute modules, that Milk. Yeah. Milk was one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They have a lot of interesting products. Milk milk. I think Milk v yeah. It's they they have a lot of cool things. Seems like they're kinda they're working on new stuff. We're starting to get more and more performant risk five based Mhmm. Modules.
[00:33:25] Unknown:
Yeah. Speaking of LibriBoard, Schnitzel has been globetrotting, but we're very close to submitting the PCB designs to the manufacturer to get our prototype boards created and then sent to us. So, that should I think that'll be happening this week.
[00:33:53] Unknown:
So yeah. Can't wait to get my hands on one of those. Dude, yeah. I'm stoked too.
[00:33:59] Unknown:
I just gotta say, like, one of my boxes of surface mount device components got destroyed by customs. No. No. Dude, for real. No. Yeah. I can show you the screen the screenshot of the tracking. It's like, your box has been imported. Your Your box has been transferred to the next facility. It's now at customs. It has been flagged by customs. There's documents missing. Your box has been destroyed by customs.
[00:34:29] Unknown:
Like, it wasn't like they dropped it or stepped on it. It was like No. Something didn't match, so they just, like, incinerated it? Like, what? Yeah.
[00:34:37] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:34:38] Unknown:
So It was very harsh. Like, how how did it get
[00:34:42] Unknown:
Papers, please.
[00:34:44] Unknown:
So I think I here's my I don't know exactly what happened, but here's my speculation. That happened around the October, like, during the October. I was just idly waiting for the package to show up and didn't really track or didn't even look at the tracking number until, like, the third week in October, like, last week. And I was like, and that's when I noticed that something had gone wrong. And I think what happened was that they reached out to the shipper, the person I bought the components from. And because it's a Chinese company, they either had a communication barrier or just didn't respond to customs email at all or their, whatever way they customs tried contacting them, phone call, email, letter. I don't know.
I think they probably got no response. And then they're like, okay. Well, you know, if I'm the customs agent, I'm like, okay. I have this box. We don't have what we need to process it. We can't let this go because of our procedures. We tried initiating contact. It's been fourteen days. We haven't heard anything. Send it to the incinerator. I, like, I think I think that's what happened. And so by the time I got in the loop, I was like, okay. Like, box destroyed. That's a red flag. So, dude, I was on the phone for three hours and finally got a hold of a UPS agent and talked to them about what was going on.
They sent me the form that was missing and said that the shipper needs to fill out that form, send it to customs, and then initiate a claim with UPS to investigate if the package is still recoverable or not. And so then I had to go talk to the shipper and be like, yo, there's something wrong with the shipment. Thanks for letting me know, by the way. Yeah. Here's this form. Here's what UPS said. Here's what you need to do. And then they got back to me, and they're like, yeah. It's been destroyed. We'll give you a refund. So they sent me a refund, but they didn't give me my fee for putting the components on their reel, which was $40, and they didn't give me back the taxes.
And I'm just like so now I'm, like, contacting them again. Like, yo, like, no sale occurred here. I don't know if you noticed, but I gave you money. You gave me nothing. There was no transaction completed. Therefore, I'm not paying you the taxes. You need to give me that tax money back too. And the real fee money it should be anyways, they owe me, like, $90, but I'm like
[00:37:31] Unknown:
So is this LCSC? Yeah. It is. Is there any option to just be, like, send it again and include the form this time, you guys? Like well This can't be the first time they've sent parts to The US. Like Yeah. There so I can order it again. However,
[00:37:48] Unknown:
I'm monitoring the situation to see if they're gonna do the right thing or not. Because if they don't give me my $90 back, I'm not gonna want to continue to do business with them. Because it's a indicator to me that one, they're not gonna do the right thing when I trust them to. And two, they're not gonna take corrective they're not gonna take all the corrective measures they need to to fix it if they do make a mistake. So I'm I'm just like, everything's paused right now, and I'm just waiting for them to see what they do.
[00:38:22] Unknown:
I would I would suggest that as as much as it sucks, the easiest method to to get this resolved might be, like, just send it again. I know you don't trust them, but I have heard from several people that it's it's very hard to get money back from China. They don't like to do that. Yeah. I've been much more apt to just send the stuff again. Well, they they sent me most of the refund already. There's just this last $90 that's missing. Okay.
[00:38:51] Unknown:
So, I mean, yeah, they did. They were like, okay. We'll issue you a refund. I'm like, yeah. I'll believe that when I see it. Yeah. And then surprisingly, I was like, oh, shit. They did send me my refund. But wait. It's not quite the same amount what happened there. And I looked at the invoice and was able to figure out what exactly which line items exactly they held on to and that they didn't refund. So I've reached out to them to let them know that that that's, you know, missing. There's, like, $90 missing here that they need to follow through with. So
[00:39:25] Unknown:
These are all little electronic components that go on the board? Yeah. So these are, like, the resistors,
[00:39:30] Unknown:
capacitors, little all the little things. So
[00:39:36] Unknown:
What what was the form? Like, what
[00:39:38] Unknown:
It was, I forget the the form number, the customs number, but it was a form that specified how much aluminum, steel, or copper content there is in the components. So, apparently, at least one of the components in the package, shipped with a harmonized tariff code that indicated that it contained either steel, aluminum, or copper. And the associated form that's supposed to go along with that to declare how much steel, aluminum, or copper is in that component so that they could figure out, okay. Like, for example, this component is made of 10% aluminum. It cost a dollar. That means at a 100% tariff, they owe us another 10¢ for for this component,
[00:40:33] Unknown:
you know, or whatever equation they use to figure that out. Oh, man. I think they put the wrong code on there, the wrong tariff code. That sounds wrong to me. I I've never ever seen, them come back to you and ask how much, you know, metal is in these components because it's they're so small.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. Right. Extremely little. And the components cost, like, 6 tenths of a cent. Like
[00:41:04] Unknown:
Oh, man. I really think they put the wrong code on there. That that seems like they messed up.
[00:41:09] Unknown:
Yeah. Well, they did, and they need to do the right thing. And if they don't, then I'm not, so sure I'm gonna continue doing business with them.
[00:41:19] Unknown:
How'd they destroy this stuff? I mean Who's got the destruction job?
[00:41:23] Unknown:
The customs.
[00:41:24] Unknown:
The customs agents. Yeah. Someone's got a destruction job. Destroy inventory. Yeah. Wonder how they do it.
[00:41:32] Unknown:
I'm guessing they sell it on the black market and then just keep the cash.
[00:41:38] Unknown:
You put the box on the back steps and be like, it's destroyed. Yeah. Oh, fell off the truck. They're just gonna build the lever board. They're like, we can do it first. Yeah. Oh, man. That is so frustrating.
[00:41:50] Unknown:
Yeah. It is. But I'm I'm learning a lot venturing into this, hardware assembly and manufacturing venture. So
[00:42:02] Unknown:
Well, do we need to order all this stuff from Digi Key? Like, it costs more, but Perhaps. It's not as expensive as just not getting it. Yeah. And it ships from within The US most of the time. I mean, at least it comes from China so that that, you know Right. They deal with it, but, hopefully, they're more after dealing with this stuff.
[00:42:19] Unknown:
Well, look. My moniker is burn the bridge. So you cross me once, and, like, I'm just not that's it. We're done. So Jared. We'll see. The ball is in LCSC's court.
[00:42:34] Unknown:
We'll see. I see. So they're like an upstream supplier, so you can get the components cheaper than a Digi Key.
[00:42:43] Unknown:
Yeah. It's more expensive to get from Digi Key typically.
[00:42:46] Unknown:
I've only ever used
[00:42:48] Unknown:
them. I think the the best way to get components is to buy, like, direct from the manufacturer, but you need quite an inventory appetite to be able to absorb those quantities. Because the manufacturers, they don't wanna be screwing around with the onesies, twosies. They wanna sell you a box of a 100,000 resistors. You know? Right.
[00:43:10] Unknown:
Yeah. They wanna sell you a case of reels. Yeah. Right.
[00:43:15] Unknown:
Dang.
[00:43:16] Unknown:
So we'll see. Minor setback.
[00:43:19] Unknown:
Yeah. Minor setback, but that's okay. You know? Everything's kinda just gonna arrive right when it should, I believe. You know, we're all kinda like and it was just probably gonna be right around the telehash in January. You know? But it looks like the hardware is probably gonna be produced around then and ready, and, Magina will be ready, and the Liber board will be ready, Ember one. And Hydropool, we've got Hydropool up and running right now. Mhmm. So if anyone out there wants to help us test Hydropool, go to point your miners to stratum plus tcp colon slash slash test dot hydropool dot org colon thirty three thirty three. Mhmm.
Keith, I said slash slash for you, not forward slash forward slash. We're good.
[00:44:19] Unknown:
We'll check the hash donation, see if he's still yarping about that. Yeah. Yeah. Junglee had a cool tweet a couple days ago with the, the pie graph breakdown hash rate distribution.
[00:44:30] Unknown:
So the way we did hydropool was it's always in pay per last and share mode. So if you're the only miner, like, if you spin up your own hydro pool instance and you're just running it at home and you have your miners pointed to it and they're all using your Bitcoin address, then you're getting 100% of the shares. If you are hosting a hydro pool for you and your friends and your friends are using other addresses, then it divvies up the shares proportional to their contribution, just like any Mhmm. Pay per last end share pool, would have done if they were still around.
[00:45:13] Unknown:
Oh, man. I can't wait for a hydro pool block soon.
[00:45:17] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting. It's been a lot of work getting it it to this point and, you know, hats off to Junglee for getting it across the finish line. We've been talking all morning about, like, the different ways to package and distribute the software. So, the code is there on GitHub for any anybody who's eager and ambitious. So go to the two fifty six foundations GitHub page and find the hydro pool repo. You can grab the code there. And, otherwise, I think we're gonna go the docker approach, and just try to make it a simple docker container. The dashboard will also be a docker container.
And, so that you know, the trade off there is that the users there's gonna be some prerequisites and the users will need to have Docker installed and running on their system. But I'm gonna put a step by step guide together that details how to, like, do this on your home laptop or desktop and also give an example of, like, how to, like, rent a VPS, a virtual private server, and, install a hydropool instance there and open it up with a public URL for your friends. So I'll I'll document all of that and go over the prerequisites, the steps to deploy on those kinds of systems, and and I'll probably go through, like, how to compile from source code for the super paranoid as well.
[00:46:53] Unknown:
God's work. That's a lot. That's Yeah. It'll be gonna be cool. You need to package it up for, star nine and Umbrel too. Yeah. Which is,
[00:47:03] Unknown:
Docker. Right? They they want them in in Docker format, I think. I know. Or I understood. Definitely. I don't know. Isn't it changing for o four o?
[00:47:12] Unknown:
I don't know. I don't know. I think I might be. I actually don't know what I'm talking about, but I think I heard at ..com that, it's a little bit different for Star nine. They're they're making it even easier supposedly. They had a Yeah. Gary knows how to do it. Gary. That's what I was gonna say. Average Gary. Come on, man. Let's get this going. We Alright. It's it's written in Rust. Right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Very. It's written in Rust. It needs to be packaged. I know you like to do this. We had a long chat about this. At TabConf, StartNine had a a table, and it was just like a package a thon.
People were passing out all kinds of things for StartOS.
[00:47:49] Unknown:
Yeah. We were like, we explored doing, like like, making, like, a Debian package so you could just do, like, sudo d p k g dash I install. Yeah. Yeah. But no. After after talking about it, we decided to go the Docker route. We think that'll be the easiest to, like, maintain going forward for the developer, and, I think it covers the most bases for the end users. Because, like, if we start going the individual packages route, like, dude, there's so many different systems and ways to deploy this stuff that, like, we just can't cover all the use cases, you know, nor do we wanna even try. So
[00:48:40] Unknown:
Yeah. I think putting in a a well documented base case out there, and people will do it. Right? Yeah. Exactly. They'll get it packaged up for every weird little esoteric system. You know? Yeah.
[00:48:52] Unknown:
So all you Temple OS users out there, get ready.
[00:48:57] Unknown:
That that was a joke. I don't even know what that is. What's Temple OS? It was It's probably what his laptop runs. He still got that crappy laptop?
[00:49:06] Unknown:
No. Dude, I actually upgraded. Woah. Yeah. I had a catastrophic failure trying to copy some files from one hard drive to another. You need those $90 back. And, like, I had my head in my hands, and my wife was, observing me fail at life and was like, dude, just do yourself a favor and buy the fucking laptop that you need to do the work that you need to do. So I took her advice and bought a laptop.
[00:49:37] Unknown:
We didn't it we didn't even notice this, but Iko just joins the podcast now and his, like, audio works and his video works.
[00:49:48] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:49:49] Unknown:
You can have more than one tab open. Yeah. Funny how that happens. Did you go Linux?
[00:49:55] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I got, so I went with a company that manufactures laptops specifically for, Linux operating systems.
[00:50:06] Unknown:
System 76?
[00:50:07] Unknown:
Nope. It's called Star Labs.
[00:50:10] Unknown:
Oh, cool.
[00:50:11] Unknown:
And, they have open source firmware, running on their laptops. And I installed first, I went with I was getting into Arch Linux, and so I tried, Arch, Monjaro, k d e. And it it worked fine when I, like, install like, did my initial install and, like, set everything up. I powered the laptop off, powered it back on, and then it went into, like, this weird, like, failure to load cycle, and it just couldn't couldn't run. So I, went back to Debian and went with the Ubuntu distro. So I'm running Ubuntu on it, and it's been running fine with Ubuntu. My desktop, which is the computer that I'm using right now, is an old Optiplex ninety twenty.
And I did keep Arch on this, but it's the, XFCE Manjaro distribution. So, that is a very, like, light and, doesn't consume a lot of resources, which I think works well for the hardware that it's on. So
[00:51:26] Unknown:
This is so cool. You're such a badass. I love that you practice what you preach and just, like, getting this working. It's so cool. Yeah. It's been a lot of fun.
[00:51:36] Unknown:
But, yeah, got a new laptop and, what else was I I was gonna say something else before I went down that tangent. I can't remember.
[00:51:48] Unknown:
Sorry. We threw you off. No. It's okay. So this this laptop,
[00:51:51] Unknown:
when you got it, did it have an OS on it, or is it just, like
[00:51:56] Unknown:
so you can pick which OS you want from the manufacturer. And so on the list of options, they had Manjaro XFCE. So I I picked that one. And so that's the one they loaded on it. But by the time it arrived, I was like, you know, I had already installed XFCE on my desktop and, like, played around with it. And I'm like, that's that's nice and all, but I think KDE is gonna be better. It's more feature rich. There's more, like, nice, quality of life improvements for the end user. And because this laptop is, so well equipped, it has the, Intel Ultra seven, which has 16 cores, 22 threads.
I got it with, 64 gigabytes of RAM.
[00:52:45] Unknown:
Balling.
[00:52:46] Unknown:
Yeah. So it's like it's a dude, my old laptop was, like, 15 years old, had four cores, and was just a, you know, well past its usable lifespan. So this is a major upgrade for me. So I was like, you know, by the time the laptop showed up, I was like, I wanna try the more, like, feature rich version of Monjaro. So I'll put KDE on it. So I didn't even powered on and boot that operating system. I when I powered it on the first time, I booted from that thumb drive and loaded, KDE on there. But for some reason, KDE wasn't one of the pre selectable options from the manufacturer, and I think it's because of what I ran into where it I don't know if it's like a power management thing or what that doesn't allow it to, like, boot with KDE, but that was that was my experience.
So but it runs fine with Banjar sorry. Ubuntu.
[00:53:50] Unknown:
That's so funny. Freedom tech. Also, like, shout out to Linux for getting it working on so many different hardware platforms because, like Right. You know, with a with a complete system, there's there's a lot of other things besides the CPU. Right? Like the power management stuff. Like what happens when you close the laptop? Like, how to interface with the mouse and track the, keyboard and, you know, everything. And every manufacturer is gonna be slightly different. That's gonna be such a crazy thing getting that all working. Mhmm. That's a lot of drivers. Yeah. And not all well, few of them are probably open. Right? It's like you gotta, I don't know, reverse engineer it or use binary blobs or some hack in between.
[00:54:34] Unknown:
Oh, I remember where I was going with this. So TempleOS is this really old Linux distribution that's, religious based. And it's, what? Yeah. Just just do an Internet search for TempleOS, and you'll have you'll be entertained.
[00:54:57] Unknown:
So anyways yeah. For Sometimes you might need divine intervention to get those drivers working.
[00:55:03] Unknown:
For all the TempleOS users, you can you can download the source code for hydro pool and and compile it yourself. TempleOS
[00:55:12] Unknown:
is a biblical themed lightweight operating system Yes. Designed to be the third temple from the Hebrew Bible.
[00:55:19] Unknown:
Alright. This is interesting. Just do what you want.
[00:55:25] Unknown:
Yeah. And, like, I wasn't quite ready to go down the, like, the Richard Stallman rabbit hole where, like, he won't even put, like, m p three drivers on his hardware because m p three m MPEG is a closed standard. Right? Or I guess it wouldn't be a standard if it's closed. Yeah. It's it's closed. The
[00:55:51] Unknown:
the the, like, algorithm to, decode or encode m p three, I think, is, like, a proprietary thing that you need a license to use.
[00:56:05] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. So he like, Richard Stallman, like, if you listen to some of his talks, he's very staunch and has this, like, hard line in the sand about, like, any, like, closed anything that's closed is malware to him. So, like, like, his hardware will not play MP threes or, like, MPEG. Like, he uses, stuff that'll play like the OGG standard, OGG. Uh-huh. Because that's an open standard for media. So I I and so yeah. Like, you can imagine, like, you know, doing, like, audio and video stuff on Linux systems is already, like, kind of not the smoothest anyways.
And then, like, taking it even a step further and, like, not using not having any drivers to play, like, anything, like, m p three. Like, you can only play dot ogg audio files and I just I wasn't ready to go that far. But, I'm I'm pretty happy with where I'm at and the life choices I've made, so stop judging me.
[00:57:12] Unknown:
Cool. No judgment. It's badass. I respect it. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, man. Freedom tech, not just software. You can actually live it in hardware.
[00:57:26] Unknown:
Yeah. It's great.
[00:57:29] Unknown:
Imagine, like, all the stuff we've been talking about today from the laptops to heating systems to these little boxes. Like, all these companies exist. You go on Ring or a boat or Google Nest, and you you pick out all the kit for your house. Right? I want a couple cameras. I want a router. I want some door sensors. I want a heating system. Like, there's a there's a way to package this all up as freedom tech.
[00:57:58] Unknown:
Right. Yeah.
[00:57:59] Unknown:
I think so. Sovereign focused. Yeah. Hardware and software layers
[00:58:04] Unknown:
that don't talk out to the overlords. Well, dude, the tools are just gonna get better and better. I mean, I know that, like, the the closed and proprietary stuff is, like, very well polished and, you know, they're selling a service. But I think as time goes on, more and more people kinda wake up to realizing that they themselves and everything they do and all the data that's collected about them is the product that is that that's involved in this transaction, you know. So, like, you're paying these subscriptions and volunteering all this data, and all that information is getting harvested, analyzed, sold, you know, especially with, like, AI ramping up.
Yeah. You know, this stuff is just gonna get insane. So here's an example. I needed to, rent a trailer. So I went to U Haul the other day, and the guy says, you know, I I reserve the trailer. I go into the store. He says, okay. We're gonna U Haul's gonna send you a text message to your phone, and it'll have a link. You go to that link and follow all the steps and then we can release the trailer. Okay? So I get the link. I open it. Step one, take a selfie. And I look at the guy and I'm like, dude, I'm not taking a selfie. And he's like, you you need you need to take a selfie or I'm not giving you the trailer. And I'm like, opt out. I'll opt out. No. There is no opt out reason, option. You need to do the steps or you're not getting the trailer. And I looked at him and said, okay. Good luck with that business model, man. And I turned around and walked out. Like, if if I have to give you a selfie for your service, it's it's a nonstarter for me. That's a deal breaker. I'm sorry. I don't care what the fucking service is, but I'm borrowing a trailer. I'm not opening a bank account. You're not conducting financial transactions on my behalf. You don't need me to take a fucking selfie.
So yeah. And I I'm just like, that shit's gonna get worse and worse and worse and more invasive and more prevalent, and, more data's gonna get, analyzed by AI. Like, who knows how many, like, third party databases your information is getting passed around to and analyzed in and included in. And then all of those third parties now are potential honeypots for hackers to break into and have your information spilled in, like, the worst possible places. So, like, do yourselves a favor and just, like, use privacy, your right to reveal selectively reveal information about yourself, and be careful about what you reveal.
[01:00:58] Unknown:
It's the boiling frog allegory. I mean, people are getting too complacent with it all for sure. Dude.
[01:01:04] Unknown:
And it it's you know, we have this sort of decentralized way of storing people's personal information. Right? It's not like it's going to the government and their master system. Right? It's like Target and U Haul and everything is storing it or contracting it to someone else to someone else to store it, and they just use, like, f minus security because that costs money, and it's gonna get hacked, and there's no repercussions for them losing your personal information.
[01:01:31] Unknown:
Nope. Or the or the employees of f minus security firm sell it because they can make more money selling your data than they can with their paycheck.
[01:01:40] Unknown:
Yes.
[01:01:41] Unknown:
And, like, and if the government wanted the information, all they need to do is, like, knock on Target's door and be like, yo. Can we get that database of, like, the millions of, facial recognition scans your store cameras have conducted over the last twenty four hours? And they're like, yep. Here you go. Like
[01:02:01] Unknown:
But even easier than that, Palantir is just gonna give it to them for them. Yes. I think there's a centralization force here. Like, Target's not gonna manage all this shit. They're gonna contract it out to a company that's an expert at it. And then you have multiple companies feeding up to this mega source. The honeypot gets more centralized.
[01:02:19] Unknown:
Yeah. Well like, ineptitude all the way up.
[01:02:23] Unknown:
What's interesting about Target specifically is that they they actually have their own forensics lab.
[01:02:29] Unknown:
That is interesting. I wouldn't expect that. Yeah. It is.
[01:02:34] Unknown:
Well, they had like, so, like, shoplifting Yeah. Falls very low on law enforcement priority lists. And so the people running Target, you know, shoplifting is a major deal for Target. Right? So, it was justified for them to, like, launch their own forensics arm to handle evidence stemming from incidences, across all their stores around the the nation. So, yeah, they have a forensics lab.
[01:03:11] Unknown:
Jeez.
[01:03:12] Unknown:
And it's kinda messed up because there's as far as I know, there's no, like, legal requirement for U Haul to collect that personal information. It's probably like they got a nickel discount on their insurance if they Right. Collect information from you. Right? Yeah. They don't they don't care. They're just about, you know, making a little bit more profit and Yep. Lowering their insurance costs.
[01:03:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Because, like, somebody, like, you know, uses a fake ID and, like, goes and wrecks a U Haul truck one time, and then they they ruin it for the rest of us. And they the insurance rates go up. And then the insurance provider is like, you know what would really help your insurance rate is if you use my brother in law's analytics firm to all you gotta do is get all your customers to take a selfie, and then we'll we'll we'll bring your rates back down to last year's prices.
[01:04:06] Unknown:
You guys are telling me you don't turn on the accelerometer in your phone when you drive around to get a dollar off your insurance every month? Dude, fuck no.
[01:04:15] Unknown:
Uh-uh. Nope.
[01:04:16] Unknown:
Oh, man. It's so bad with cars. Yeah. It is. It's so bad with cars because they're all computers now. Yeah. Mhmm. For, like, over a decade, all cars have been Internet, like, persistent Internet connection Yep. To the car. Yeah.
[01:04:29] Unknown:
The sweet spot's, like, 2010 and before. I think 2000 to 2010, you get some safety, you get some airbags, but it's not totally tainted by the surveillance state.
[01:04:39] Unknown:
It's it's so bad. Like, to to be able to control people's freedom of movement like that and just track it, it's yeah. It's really bad. I don't know why people aren't raising more of a stink about cars, like, tracking your every movement and being remotely disabled. Mhmm. Like, that seems
[01:04:59] Unknown:
just It's because they're wondering if you caught the game this weekend.
[01:05:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're baking it into the like, Tesla offers insurance, so you you don't even have to have a separate account. Oh, you could get your car insurance from Tesla? Yes. And it uses the in car camera to watch you, the human. It watches the road. It knows your acceleration because the insurance is baked into all of the sensors and data of the vehicle itself. Dude,
[01:05:29] Unknown:
no. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm going to perpetually live in, like, 1995 for the rest of my life. And Let's go. The world is just gonna get more and more uncomfortable and difficult to navigate, but I'm just gonna hold it down.
[01:05:49] Unknown:
We gotta I'm not budging. I'm not gonna budge. There's a fun little story in our god fearing, wonderful county that is Denver County. Palantir is here in Denver. They have some presence here, and there was a proposal to the city council to get a $1,200,000 budget for these Palantir cameras. And it's the whole Oh my god. It's the whole, artificial intelligence. Like, even without your plate, they can kind of learn whose cars are who and who's in what part of town. It's this pre crime thing. Right? Yeah. Oh, these vehicles drove to the East side of town. Let's send the police there ahead of time just in case something happens. And, it was a unanimous 12 vote against this proposal.
And so what our lovely mayor, Mike Johnson, went out and did is he approved a $499,000 contract because anything over $500,000, he needs the council's approval.
[01:06:46] Unknown:
That fucking scumbag.
[01:06:48] Unknown:
So we might have to get a little Blade Runner action over here. For real. Yeah.
[01:06:55] Unknown:
There was that thing with, I think it was, Ring, which is a part of Google, maybe. I think it's elect Amazon. Amazon. Okay. They they originally had an opt in program where you could just sort of automatically provide the video feed from your door your porch, to law enforcement. But then there's some drama recently, like, maybe it's on by default and now it's opt out. And
[01:07:25] Unknown:
Okay. So I was setting up the ring that was left at my house this past weekend because I was playing around with the home assistant. I wanted to see, first of all, how you set up all this stuff because it's a learning experience and how these companies do it differently and what can we learn from that for, like, mining. But, yeah, I didn't see an option for that. So I'm sure it's probably just baked in. There is an option to share with your neighbors automatically. Like, if the neighbor says I'm looking for a dog, then you can automatic you can turn on a toggle where it'll let them look at your feed for dogs. Oh, dude.
[01:07:58] Unknown:
Come on.
[01:07:59] Unknown:
I'm definitely
[01:08:00] Unknown:
just looking for dogs all around town. Yeah. Let me just watch your front porch and see when you come home every day. I'm looking for a dog. I promise.
[01:08:09] Unknown:
Yeah. We have to smash all these things. It's so bad. It's so 1984. Like Yeah. That was the whole premise of 1984 was Big Brother is watching. Like Right. How are they watching? I don't know. When that book came out, it seemed a little bit improbable, but now it's not at all. They can watch, listen with ease.
[01:08:27] Unknown:
Ring does sell a box because I was going through the app, looking at all the kit and stuff you can add to it. They do sell a box where you can do local video processing and storage, but I I don't know if it opts you out of also
[01:08:42] Unknown:
talking to their server. Yeah. How do you know it's not just, like, mirror mirroring everything to home base. Yeah. It might be an illusion. Can't trust them, dude. That's why we need open source tools. Yes.
[01:08:56] Unknown:
Yeah. I've become a home assistant, Maxie. It's
[01:08:59] Unknown:
amazing. That's great. So they have that software, Pi Hole. Have you seen that? It's like it's for ad blocking. Heard of that. Yeah. It's a it's like Raspberry Pi software. You can just put it on a Raspberry Pi, put it on your network, and it will sort of intercept, calls to, you know, remote ad servers and things like that and just block it. But we need that is for IoT, these, like, shady IoT devices. Oh, yeah. All in there. And every time it, you know, sends out a little ping to, Amazon or Google or whatever. Right? It's just, like, block it is the first step. But second would be is to actually provide your your local hosted
[01:09:39] Unknown:
version of it. Right. Does a lot of this fall under the purview of, like, the router? It almost seems like having a really
[01:09:49] Unknown:
freedom focused router would solve a lot of this. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, the router is gonna control all those connections in and out of your network.
[01:09:56] Unknown:
Yeah. P f Sense, it makes, open source router firmware that's very configurable. And then if you use, like, a service like, Mullvad or like a v I I don't know about other VPN providers, but I know with Mullvad, you can also use, like, their ad blocking DNS servers. So you can go in and tell your configure your router to, like, use those DNS servers instead. And then, like, it's nice because you'll just be using your web browser on your home network, looking at, you know, say, like, bitcoinmagazine.com, and everywhere that would typically be ad spaces just like empty space on your screen. You're not being bombarded with all these advertisements any longer.
[01:10:50] Unknown:
They have a I just saw the other day, Movad makes a browser. Have you seen that? Yep. Yeah. I've used it. I've got it on my on my on my new laptop. It's, like, configured with all those things by default. Seems pretty nice.
[01:11:02] Unknown:
Yeah. It it is. I have been trying it out. I like it so far. I don't have any complaints. Brave Brave is my daily driver. I usually use Brave driver or Brave browser. Before that, it was Firefox. But, they did some things last year. I can't recall exactly what they did, but it was just like They went, like, closed source or something. Yeah. Firefox really like shit that bad. Like, they Yeah. There was a there was, like, a couple things they did, and that was just like, woah. Like, what are you guys doing? Fuck this. Well, Brave has the shit coin. Yeah. You don't have to use it, though. Yeah. You don't have to interact with it at all. Like, there's, like, a toggle to, like, turn your wallet on or off.
Other than that, like, if you can find it, de googled Chromium or un googled Chromium is nice. Mhmm. And mobile browser. Yeah.
[01:11:59] Unknown:
You don't want the smart fridge with ads on it that tells you what you should buy at the grocery
[01:12:04] Unknown:
store? Oh my god.
[01:12:05] Unknown:
No. No. Science. No. Take my name off that list.
[01:12:12] Unknown:
Is it impossible to get your persona, your Internet persona, off of all these systems? Or is the cat out of the bag? Like, am I Dude, once you reveal the information, there's no getting it back.
[01:12:27] Unknown:
Ugh. I mean, just for example, like, you unsubscribe from some random ass mailing list that you got put on and it'll work for, like, six months or a year. And then all of a sudden, you just get the messages again. Like, they just decide, like, let's just check and see if they want it. Right? So it's not like
[01:12:42] Unknown:
you were deleted. Right? You have to mark them like Seth for privacy was telling us was that a lot of these, like, SQL databases, it's actually just easier to turn a flag than actually delete an entry Yeah. For their management so that they don't actually ever get rid of anything. Uh-uh. No.
[01:13:03] Unknown:
And then when that, like, database gets leaked because there's a data breach because it's mishandled, it's still there. And then who's ever, like, getting the fruits of that hack are they don't give a fuck what the flags are. They they see all the information they want.
[01:13:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Damn. I really goofed up not having a pseudonym, guys. It's too late.
[01:13:27] Unknown:
I mean, no. It's not. Don't feel like it's too late. It's never too late to start practicing good privacy hygiene.
[01:13:38] Unknown:
How do they start for our listeners? What what would you recommend?
[01:13:43] Unknown:
My first recommendation would be to, start using a password manager. Very simple. Start using a password manager.
[01:13:55] Unknown:
What's the password manager, though?
[01:13:57] Unknown:
Well, there's some good ones out there. Wharton? There's some bad ones, though. Yeah. Alright. Bitwarden is a good one. I like Bitwarden. I like KeePass. I'll just leave it there. Those are my top two go tos. So not 1Password and LastPass? Yeah. No. I I don't recommend those ones. Yeah.
[01:14:23] Unknown:
So Self host one on a start nine or a number.
[01:14:26] Unknown:
A password manager. You can you can do that too. But a password manager, use different passwords, use a different unique random password for all of your accounts, and then, like, try to start, rolling out of any Google services that you're using. So, for example, if you're on an Android, switch to a de googled operating system like Graphene. If you're on an iPhone, consider switching to Android. I think those just those two things alone are are huge first steps that a user can take, and they can start to, one, protect all of their private information that they have to log in to. Because if, like, one of if you're using the same password for everything and one of your accounts gets breached, then potentially all of your accounts are getting breached.
And if you're using Google services, then it's it's constantly monitoring everything that you're doing. It's probably you activating the microphones and cameras on your cell phone when you don't know that it is and every bit of information that it can get out of you is selling to advertisers. So in order to stop that, de Google your mobile device. And, you know, if you're using an email provider, Matt Odell had an interesting slide where, it was like these large circles that represented, like, Internet activity. And the email bubble was, like, like way bigger than any of the other like, Internet activity that goes on there. So the majority of Internet activity is emails being sent back and forth. So if you're using an email provider that can read your emails, and use and scan them and sell that information to advertisers, then, you know, I think that's an like, the third area of major concern I would attack. And I would go for a more privacy focused email provider like Tutanota or ProtonMail.
Those would be my top two suggestions. And that way, your emails are encrypted and they can't even the email server where those emails reside, the owner of that server cannot read your emails because they're encrypted. So, yeah, start doing that and then start, you know, try instead of using SMS messages, which are not encrypted to text with friends and family. Try getting your friends and family onto encrypted messaging services like Signal. And, I I think those would be, like, monumental privacy preserving steps that are, like, pretty low hanging fruit for anybody to start taking. And if you wanna go further than that, like, start doing what Tyler is doing and try to, like, self host everything you possibly can.
The trade off is that, like, you're gonna slowly become, sysadmin and Yeah. IT part time guru. But, you know, the benefit is you're you're taking yourself out of the pool of monitored people, and you're reducing your footprint you're leaving where you're getting tracked. And you're not getting milked for SaaS money as much. That's a big benefit too when you sell host things. Yeah. Just it sucks when you're the product and, you you know, you're not getting anything out of it. So Yeah. Take yourself out of that equation.
[01:18:20] Unknown:
Good steps. Good steps. Scott, what's this edit board thing you'd put in the notes? Ant hat inside a stealth miner.
[01:18:32] Unknown:
Well, I think okay. So the I made a a single board, miner. So I used the hash board from an s 19 j Pro. Sat Sacking Pleb very graciously sent me one of his stealth miner enclosures, which are super rad, by the way. They are. It's so nicely done. Like, he he did a really nice job with this. So I've got my s 19 j Pro dashboard in there, but, I'm not super into using Bitmain firmware. So I,
[01:19:06] Unknown:
wait. What? Yeah. I don't know. Just I'm shocked. Yeah.
[01:19:12] Unknown:
So I've got an ADIT board in there. An ADIT board is a USB adapter for, Bitmain hash board. And then I plugged that, USB into a Raspberry Pi. And the Raspberry Pi has a a hat on it, a little accessory board on it that can control the fans. That's called the ant hat. And, yeah, that's that's controlling the miner. So I'm running, the firmware on the Raspberry Pi to do the mining is called Pi miner. And it's it's kind of a goofy little project that I've just been hacking on. But eventually, this will be, using Magina firmware, which is gonna be a much better way of doing this. But even using Pi miner, like, it works.
I I was mining with it. I'm I'm gonna use this for heat reuse. I'm I've been working on a project to do, to cure tobacco. That's right. Minor heat, but that's that's what this is for.
[01:20:12] Unknown:
That's amazing.
[01:20:13] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's been really fun. This the stealth miner enclosure is really slick. I think it's gonna interface nicely with this, kiln for tobacco curing.
[01:20:23] Unknown:
When do you harvest the tobacco?
[01:20:26] Unknown:
So it's an incremental process. You kind of do it from the bottom up of the plant, like, as they start to turn a little bit as the leaves start to turn yellow. So I I have been harvesting and still have some more to go. Awesome. Yeah. And then there's, like, a drying phase. You hang them, for a little bit, and then and then the curing needs to happen. So I am getting I'm getting towards that spot in which curing needs to happen. So been working on this. Yeah. I think the the Adit board is is really neat. It's a super simple little thing. I mean, it's it's small. It's like an inch wide and like half an inch tall, but it just plugs right into that, data connector on the top of a hash board and gives you a USB c port. And there's some simple firmware that goes on the AttitBoard that was written by k one.
But it's really neat. It just it makes, the hash board a USB serial device on what whatever computer you plug it to. And it can So this is how the, Ember one was running at temps. Correct? Mhmm. Very similar. With, it wasn't using an AddIt directly, but it was using the same processor that's on the AddIt board and Gotcha. Passing the data through to the, actually, s 19 j Pro chips that are on the Amber one. Mhmm. So I've done a lot of the software leg work to get that working, and and Ryan's also working on it for Magina. But, yeah, it was it was up and running. It's pretty neat.
[01:21:54] Unknown:
Do you have the, like, manifold hat for the stealth miner that I saw sat stacking plug working on? I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here. Actually, it's right here. Let's go.
[01:22:07] Unknown:
Look at this bad boy.
[01:22:08] Unknown:
Oh, look
[01:22:09] Unknown:
at that. That is sweet.
[01:22:12] Unknown:
That's amazing.
[01:22:14] Unknown:
Dude, that looks like something you would just see around, like, as heating infrastructure. It's very unassuming.
[01:22:21] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's really well done. Seth Second Plow did such a nice job with this. You know, everything fit in there easily. And he actually modified this for me to, hold the Raspberry Pi. Nice. Yeah. Really cool. Really, really, stoked to get this running. He's got a, I don't know if you can see on the front there, there's a spot for a HEPA filter. Yeah. And he made a custom, back plate
[01:22:49] Unknown:
for me there that holds everything in nicely. Oh, I gotta get one of these at the Heat Punk Summit. I'm trying to get him to bring his bus to the Heat Punk Summit if he'll finish it already. That'd be cool.
[01:22:57] Unknown:
Oh, nice.
[01:22:59] Unknown:
That'd be sweet. We, we were looking into teaser doing a little Hashrate hot tub party on Friday night for the Heapunk Summit. And I think we're we found this service in Denver where you can, get them to come spit roast a pig. Oh, yeah. Tiki torches, and that'll be a fun party. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Pig roasts are always fun. Yeah.
[01:23:25] Unknown:
I mean, they gotta start pretty early in the morning, but yeah. We'll be here all day. Yep.
[01:23:32] Unknown:
That'll be awesome. Do you guys see this announcement from Block about Open IP?
[01:23:41] Unknown:
No. Open intellectual property?
[01:23:45] Unknown:
Yeah. Block launches Open IP putting builders first. And it I'm unclear if it's Building on Block's open source foundation. It's something about how they want builders to tweak what they've done. They're starting with title. And they're essentially kinda just saying, we're not gonna sue you if you start doing this
[01:24:07] Unknown:
publicly. That's a good start. Yeah.
[01:24:10] Unknown:
It's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, with all the legal threats that have been flying around the space recently, that's refreshing to hear.
[01:24:19] Unknown:
It is. Yeah. It's really exciting. I'm gonna have to take a deeper dive into that. Well, so o Open IP, is that like a
[01:24:28] Unknown:
an entity or like a project? Or,
[01:24:31] Unknown:
Seems like it's a project.
[01:24:34] Unknown:
It's just like a like a an initiative they're doing to make their intellectual property accessible to builders. I wonder if they, like Yeah. Wonder what the like, there's gotta be a catch. Right? Like, if you're a builder patents to the public.
[01:24:56] Unknown:
Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. No. It's fine. I'm just, like,
[01:25:00] Unknown:
thinking about, like, some scenarios that come to mind are, like, Google recently made changes in their policies so that if you want to upload applications to the Google Play Store, you need to, as a developer, submit your I your government issued identifying documents.
[01:25:23] Unknown:
Not not even just the Play Store. Right? Like, they're starting to require developers who wanna have the apps side loaded to join the developer program. Right?
[01:25:35] Unknown:
Well, side loading apps means that you're getting them from a source other than the Google Play Store. Yeah.
[01:25:43] Unknown:
They they came out and said that they're starting to,
[01:25:47] Unknown:
require apps to be signed. So no matter how you get them on your device, they need to be signed. Oh, yeah. So the Google hardware itself is going to start requiring that the apps come from the Google Play Store.
[01:26:00] Unknown:
Is that just Pixel devices or all Android? I don't I don't think I think it's not just the Play Store. Right? It's side loaded apps. Like, it the phone just or the the Android OS just will not run apps that are not signed.
[01:26:11] Unknown:
Yeah. It won't you won't be able to sideload apps because they're not coming from the Play Store. Right.
[01:26:19] Unknown:
Just quickly here on the block thing, it says that we're beginning this initiative with a concrete step. We're pledging our content streaming, personalization, and artist compensation patents under the Open IP framework. I wonder what that means. So they're starting with title. But Interesting.
[01:26:35] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:26:36] Unknown:
I mean, it sounds good on the surface. I hope it is good. Mhmm.
[01:26:42] Unknown:
This is this is what we need. I was thinking about this when you when you guys were talking about Canaan. Like, they're the underdogs. Right? They have, like, single digit percentage of the market, of the minor market Yep. Or maybe, like, 10%, something like that. Right? They're they're hungry for new new markets, for new customers, for more sales. Right? So they're willing to do these things that the the incumbents, won't, which is going after this heating market. That's that's really good to see. Right? That's we need these these hungry players. I think that I hope that, Block and Proto will do the same thing because it's gonna be probably impossible to compete with Bitmain at, like, these on grid, mining machines. They have such an insane head start. Right? But as we know, as Tyler, you've made very clear, there's a huge potential market out there.
So these these underdogs can gain market share, can gain sales Mhmm. By, you know, tailoring their products to these other markets. And I really, really hope we see more of that.
[01:27:50] Unknown:
You think it'll just be a slow transition or a fracturing or a step change? I mean, something I've struggled with chatting with Canaan and meeting some of the amazing people at Block and Proto's team is, like, we gotta convince them the market's there. You know? Because it's a it's a big undertaking to spend a ton of money. I mean, I guess if you're open sourcing the stack, right, then it doesn't matter. People can go build what they want and you you make chips available. That's like then it doesn't matter. Right? Yeah. You don't have to spend any extra money to go build the heating market. Right. You just have to make the tools available.
Whereas someone like Canon, it's it's a little bit more of a gamble and credit where credit's due. That's cool to see. Right? I mean, you said it was a big part this these smaller miners were a big part of their sales. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that gamble is playing off, playing out well in their favor because I keep recommending their systems. I mean, they're great. They're quiet already, and it's, like, 18 joules per terra hash. It's wild. Yeah. For that baseboard unit? Yeah. That's pretty good. They just announced the a 16, which is 12 joules per terra hash, Canon did. Wow. That's the industrial miner, but I'm sure those chips will trickle into new, whole mining gadgets. Mhmm. Wow.
[01:29:09] Unknown:
But, like, look at Bitmain. Right? Their s 23 is supposed to be nine. Nine. Yeah. They're so far ahead. That's so difficult. You know, they've got they're a major Bitmain is a major player at TSMC. It's gonna be impossibly hard for someone else to play at that level. It's like 30%
[01:29:27] Unknown:
better for the industrial guys. I agree with you, Scott. That is like a deal breaker. But for me, like, I don't care about the difference between nine and twelve jewels per terre hash. Exactly. Exactly. That's how you compete with Bitmain, is you go after these other markets where the it isn't just about efficiency for on grid mining. Like, efficiency is
[01:29:46] Unknown:
the whole game. Yeah. If you're just plugging it in on grid, all you care about is how little electricity it costs you for for the hash rate.
[01:29:55] Unknown:
I'm really curious how it's gonna play out with a lot of the larger miners transitioning to HPC. I was chatting with someone who's in the infrastructure business this week. He was here at the space. Transformers, PDUs, they make all this cool stuff. And I was asking, like, why are all these mega miners switching to HPC? My thought was, is a lot of the infrastructure the same? Not I don't think so. Is it the power purchasing agreements? Like, is that what the valuable part is? He told me it was actually an answer I didn't expect. He said, all these companies that are contracted to build the two gigawatt site for Google or Amazon or Grok or whatever, they're, like, booked out years in advance. So these companies with infinite money, the OpenAI's, the Metas, they're essentially just saying, hey, CleanSpark and Terawolf, we saw you just brought whatever gigawatts online.
You guys seem to be worth your snuff. What if we gave you a shitload of money? Can you do it for HPC? So they're just, like, looking for talent that can build it because there's not enough companies out there that can bring these sites online,
[01:31:04] Unknown:
which is really interesting. Well, yeah. And it's super specialized. And I Yeah. And, you know, from, like, the public, traded company's point of view, I think they have, like, a fiduciary duty to do what's best for their shareholder or what's gonna make their shareholders the most money. Right. Right? And so I think that's why you're gonna see a lot of them, go after HPC because if they can make more money doing that than they can Bitcoin mining, then they kinda have to do it.
[01:31:34] Unknown:
Yeah. He told me the the switchboards, which ultimately go for they're in between the transformer and the PDUs, in the in, like, the flow of power. He said for the HPC stuff, they're, like, nine times as large for the equivalent power that a Bitcoin mining site would use because of all the redundancy. Oh, just to make sure it stays online? Yeah. Interesting. Infinitely more expensive. Wow. Literally massively larger in terms of footprint.
[01:32:04] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:32:06] Unknown:
So it's it's very different.
[01:32:08] Unknown:
I mean, we heard Adam Sullivan from, Core Scientific, I imagine if, say that he was talking about going out and getting the people that were building these data centers for the big guys to help them do their HPC conversion. So I gotta believe there's a lot of difference between making a Bitcoin mining farm and one of these AI data centers. Like you said, just the redundancy,
[01:32:35] Unknown:
the quality of it. Yeah. It's a whole different animal. Yeah. Mhmm.
[01:32:40] Unknown:
But, you know, they they know how to get cheap power, and I feel like that's that's how you get started.
[01:32:47] Unknown:
Right. Well, and I think it'll open up mining for, other people,
[01:32:52] Unknown:
you know. Like,
[01:32:54] Unknown:
if the public companies aren't gonna be doing the mining, like, someone's gonna pick that up. Exactly. So
[01:33:01] Unknown:
You know what I think that these these Pubco miners have really mastered is raising money to build. Well, yeah. Right? Like, that's what they have. Right? They've Yes. Figured out how to get capital to build computing infrastructure. And so it's like, alright, well, we'll change to this other type, whatever way. We we can get the money. Yeah.
[01:33:25] Unknown:
Yeah. It's wild to see. I mean, Marty had a good article that came out yesterday that six weeks after we hit one zeta hash, we already added another 100 x a hash. It took twelve years to hit a 100 x a hash, and we just did the next, like, six weeks added another.
[01:33:40] Unknown:
It's wild. That is pretty wild. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess I I just every time I hear those numbers getting thrown around, I wonder, like, how big is that window he's looking at?
[01:33:53] Unknown:
True. Yeah. It's super volatile depending on how you're breaking it down. Right. I think I chimed in. This is my, me trying to be philosopher brain. Too bad Rob and Rod aren't here. Rob would love this. Yeah. He would. I was playing with this idea that hash rate growth is a better metric of prosperity in an ideal Bitcoin future than GDP because it's literally a physical power metric of the human capacity to monetize stranded energy, build infrastructure, reduce waste, and increase efficiency. And if you were breaking down hash rate growth by nations, I think that's probably a more real measure of prosperity than GDP.
[01:34:56] Unknown:
Well, I think I think both can be, manipulated pretty heavily. Right? So, I mean, first and foremost, you gotta trust your hash rate measurements accurate and the the GDP numbers are accurate. Because, like, imagine a a nation that just, like, like, say, like, North Korea is, like, doing, like, horrific things to their population. Yeah. To their population in order to increase hash rate growth, you know. Is that is that truly does that truly mean that it's better than, South Korea that might have a higher GDP and less hash rate growth?
[01:35:42] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't know if GDP factors in, like, human rights, unfortunately. True. Yeah. Definitely not. But, I mean, you can't you can't fake the hash rate. Right? As if you're looking at the blockchain and, you know, basically the time between solving blocks, it's pretty it's impossible to fake the hash rate. But I think what you can fake is where it's coming from, which Yeah.
[01:36:06] Unknown:
Okay. Interesting. Maybe I'm retarded.
[01:36:12] Unknown:
It's an interesting idea. Like, looking at sort of the power production capability of a country as a measure of their growth as their of their capabilities.
[01:36:22] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's like that scatterplot. Like, you never see a, what is it? Energy poor Rich Rich country. Rich country. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that how is that how the saying goes? Yeah. Yeah. The more energy you consume, the more prosperous your people are. Yeah. I mean, I I believe that for sure. So I think 100%. There's definitely, like, validity to what you're saying because, you know, for all the reasons you've mentioned that hash rate is a good indicator.
[01:36:57] Unknown:
Well, if the people in North Korea could mine without getting gulag ed. Right. Yeah. But you're right. It's about who's hashing. Who's bringing it online?
[01:37:07] Unknown:
Right. Like, is it, like yeah. I don't know.
[01:37:13] Unknown:
So what like, if you I mean, I feel like hash rate and sort of your Bitcoin rewards from that hash rate are a part of GDP. Right?
[01:37:29] Unknown:
The Bitcoin rewards. Yeah.
[01:37:32] Unknown:
That would be a contributor to gross domestic product. I'm no economist. But Likewise. I think I think so. We're better off. Yeah.
[01:37:44] Unknown:
Yeah. We'll let Rob chime in. I'll I'll shoot him a text. He'll have the answer. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna hear what Rob has to say. Yeah. Big time. We, I got a cool message from a guy on x nuclear Bitcoiner. He's I think he's his handle, but, he was asking me so the smart thermostat behind me, the one we replaced, it it has this feature where you opt in with the utility where it's like, let the utility control the temperature in your house, and we'll give you some money. Right? Give up more control. What if they could do that in real time by paying me SATs to the thermostat as an IoT device to change the temperature.
And the more SATs they gave me, the more they could change the temperature.
[01:38:37] Unknown:
How do they pay you now?
[01:38:40] Unknown:
You get, a paycheck at the end of the year, like a a credit.
[01:38:45] Unknown:
Like a credit toward your utility bill? Mhmm.
[01:38:48] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yeah.
[01:38:50] Unknown:
I I have a sneaking suspicion the utility companies won't want to, like, actually stream SATs, but they'd like to stick with their, like, credit model against their invoices.
[01:39:04] Unknown:
Do you guys subscribe to the SAT streaming model where everything's an Internet connected device and they're communicating between each other autonomously?
[01:39:12] Unknown:
I mean, I think there's some cool potential there. I don't necessarily subscribe. I'm not sure what I'm subscribing to. Like,
[01:39:22] Unknown:
am I subscribing to think you'll manifest. Yeah.
[01:39:25] Unknown:
I I would not subscribe to the idea that all devices will be Internet connected and streaming sets to each other. No.
[01:39:33] Unknown:
Okay. But I also like like Not your ninety five ninety five pickup.
[01:39:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Hell no. I also, like, don't subscribe to this idea that, like, mass adoption will ever occur either. So, like, I just I don't buy the hyperbolic, outlooks. Maybe I've just I've either been burned too many times or I'm just too skeptical or something, but I'm jaded some way, somehow.
[01:40:01] Unknown:
It's it's a lot easier for them to give you credit. Right? Yeah. They're not gonna be wanna be like, let's give you hard money. Yeah. That's that's a lot more difficult to Or just budget for the end of the year. Yeah. We'll just, you know, give you credit. Meanwhile, we're jacking up our rates constantly. So, you know, they they can that's a very soft money that they can just easily print.
[01:40:25] Unknown:
Right. Dude, somehow, I lucked out. Our time of use just updated here. I could opt in to time of use or non time of use, and my power dropped from 14¢ flat to 8. Woah. And then the time of use from five to 9PM is 21¢. So just home some home assistant automations don't run the miners from five to nine, Monday through Friday. But, otherwise, like like, like, the Canaan miner is actually profitable here. It's 7.9¢.
[01:40:55] Unknown:
Are there limits on the, the total, like, energy use for that you can be at?
[01:41:01] Unknown:
It's just a flat rate. There's no limit from hours outside of five to nine on eight days. Your limit is what your main breaker can handle.
[01:41:13] Unknown:
Oh, I see. Yeah. I know. Also, it's a If you go to them, you're like, alright. Well, let's let's go. I want a bigger, I want a bigger breaker and sell it. Give me another 100 amps. Yeah. All of a sudden, you're not eligible for those time of use, brackets anymore.
[01:41:26] Unknown:
And it's a little bit they're all disingenuous in the sense that they say your flat rate is 7¢ or 8¢, but then there's, like, all these metered fees and then static fees. And then it you math that out, and it's, like, 18¢.
[01:41:40] Unknown:
Yeah. Utility bills are a fucking It's a racket. It's a hornet's nest, man. Mhmm. But I do remember, like, when I was living in the Denver area, I remember saving roughly 5¢ a kilowatt hour when I switched to time of use model Dang. Which is great. Yeah. But
[01:42:05] Unknown:
I just wanna be able to connect solar without having to have it be a part of the grid. That's a big barrier that needs to be overcome. You can't put solar on your house, or it's very difficult to do it and not have it. Because if it's connected to your breaker, then it has to have an interconnect for them to be able to manage it back. And that's where all the cost and complexity and time delays come in. Well, if you've just I mean, I think it depends on how you do it. Like, if you wanna integrate it into, you know, powering your entire home, then you're out for sure. But if you just have, like, a dedicated
[01:42:41] Unknown:
outlet or two that are, like, these are the outlets connected to the solar system, then it can be isolated pretty easily.
[01:42:49] Unknown:
Could a battery, a home battery, act as that isolator too? If the solar only charges the battery and the battery is interlinked to all the outlets in the house. I wonder if that's a loophole.
[01:43:02] Unknown:
Maybe. That'd be cool.
[01:43:07] Unknown:
But, like, the battery would have so, like, your panel would be getting fed by the grid, and then it would be, like, when does the battery start feeding your panel?
[01:43:18] Unknown:
Prioritize the battery. Yeah. You're right. You'd have to have some logic.
[01:43:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:43:25] Unknown:
All this stuff's so fun to learn about. It's so complicated.
[01:43:29] Unknown:
Just yeah. Whoever can figure out how to keep the parasitic power company out of the loop wins. Yes.
[01:43:35] Unknown:
A million percent. I'm excited for the telehash and NEMS. I know that there's been some
[01:43:46] Unknown:
chatter about some fun stuff cooking up for it. So Yeah. Telehash will be good. We're we're roping in d plus plus to help us with, some of the, like, graphics that'll be on the livestream and some of the
[01:44:01] Unknown:
Is she gonna gamify it?
[01:44:03] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, that's, like, what she's good at. Right? So Oh, yeah. Leaderboards. Yeah. She's got some really great ideas that she's been bringing to the table, so we just wanna give her that platform to create.
[01:44:17] Unknown:
The Teledash. Yeah. Teledash. Yeah. We were we were chatting a bunch Plus plus. Nashville. Like, just so many awesome ideas, to, get viewers involved in it and, you know, incentivize supporting the two fifty six foundation. I think there's a lot of really cool ideas there. Yeah. It's a it's a neat model of fundraising too. I think it having to be interactive and, you know, fun and lots of different ways to contribute.
[01:44:49] Unknown:
Well and we're gonna be running this one on hydropool. Nice. But, like, now hydro pool is you know, we've we did we tried that in May, and we had some hiccups that was, like, the very early first iteration of hydro pool. So a lot has changed since then, with the hydro pool code base. And I've I've got pretty high expectations, and I think it'll be pretty awesome.
[01:45:20] Unknown:
Definitely. Two blocks.
[01:45:23] Unknown:
All the blocks. I wanna do it I wanna do a teleheat where if people donate hash rate, it lets them the more hash rate they donate, the more they can turn up my thermostat and cook me.
[01:45:38] Unknown:
It's like Meg Tyler sweat.
[01:45:40] Unknown:
Yeah. That'd be fun.
[01:45:43] Unknown:
Man. That'd be really cool.
[01:45:46] Unknown:
We could figure it out. Sweet. What else do you guys wanna chat about?
[01:45:51] Unknown:
It's been a long time. List. Did we go through
[01:45:55] Unknown:
And do do you guys wanna say anything about Luke's, soft fork? I guess there's a there's enough people talking about it on Twitter.
[01:46:07] Unknown:
I haven't given it any thought.
[01:46:11] Unknown:
No. I don't. It's pretty ridiculous. I I just like, the what really irks me is, like, the, like, legal threat the threatening legal, like, over looming threatening legal vibe from it. Like, if you don't run Luke's fork, you may, be facing legal consequences, I believe is how it's something along those lines is how it's phrased in the BIP itself. Really? In the BIP? Yeah. Yeah. You can look up Oh, that messed up. 40 four four four, And it's in there that, like, if you don't run this, you may face legal consequences, which is ridiculous and absurd. Like, in what jurisdiction?
[01:46:56] Unknown:
Like
[01:46:57] Unknown:
Well, and Luke has gone out on Twitter and said, if you don't run this, his node software, you are explicitly supporting child pornography,
[01:47:11] Unknown:
which is insane. That is insane.
[01:47:14] Unknown:
You know, like I use the US dollar, and I am not explicitly supporting child pornography even though the US dollar is used in child pornography. It's just, dude, it's an it's it's it's gone completely insane. I've also heard I haven't seen this. I haven't verified this myself. So, disclaimer. But I've heard that Ocean's legal teams or an attorney that's working with Luke, I don't know if if they came from Ocean or not, but I heard that there are, legal letters circulating to other mining companies, trying to encourage them to switch to not so that, they don't face legal consequences, with these with the core version 30 changes.
[01:48:15] Unknown:
Well, that's unfortunate.
[01:48:17] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, it it is. It is very unfortunate. It's aligned with the, like, piece that the rage did recently, exposing some text messages that were exchanged between Luke Dash junior and somebody else, where, you know, he was talking about all of this. And, you know, despite all the people claiming that the rage article was a hit piece and it was inaccurate and it was taken out of context, I think in hindsight, it seems like it was pretty accurate to me. So
[01:48:50] Unknown:
crazy times we live in. Well, Bitcoin is a an open network. It's permissionless. People can do whatever they want. They can make rad stuff, or they can do, you know, very unfortunate, you know, legal attacks.
[01:49:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Like Yeah. State apparatus enforcement doesn't seem like a good strategy.
[01:49:08] Unknown:
Yeah. It's just the contrast is interesting to me. Like, on one hand, we've got projects like Hydropool to open source, easy to deploy Bitcoin mining pool that you can configure any way you want. And on the other hand, you've got Ocean sending legal threats to miners telling them how they need to run their operations. Otherwise, they're gonna face legal enforcement. It's just crazy. That is. I think there's a clear winner here, and I know where I'm hedging my bets.
[01:49:43] Unknown:
You just reminded me of something that a message you sent, Scott, earlier when we were helping out, Isabella put together her her script for this, history lesson on on mining and Bitmain and that whole fuckery. But, a lot of these mega miners, like, have contracts to use certain pools. I had never thought of that.
[01:50:04] Unknown:
Yeah. This is what I've heard from several people, and it's not, like, published. It makes sense that they wouldn't publish it. But, I have heard that. I mean, when you think about it, you have a multimillion dollar publicly traded company, and all of their revenue comes from Bitcoin mining, via the pool that they use. You know, Mara uses their own pool, so they they can deal. They they mine they sold the mines so they can deal with it how they want, but all the rest of them, as far as I know, mine with a a pool that's a separate entity. Right.
So they're not just, you know, going and getting that retail, like, 2% fee or whatever that the pool has. Right? These things are negotiated. And they're gonna say, you know, we're bringing this much hash rate. You know, we need we need the FPPS, payout structure to be set up like this, and there's a negotiation and there's a contract. That's gonna be part of the, essentially, the assets of the Pubco miner is this agreement they have with their revenue provider. So yeah. I mean, they they absolutely have agreements. Now how easily they can switch it? I don't know for sure, but it's not gonna be like, oh, we just realized that, Foundry is doing something sketchy. Let's just switch right now. Yeah. It's it's much more institutional than that.
[01:51:32] Unknown:
See, I've heard so I first heard about this from, Bob Burnett on Twitter. He said something to the effect of, you know, these large scale miners can't just change mining pools on the fly. And so I asked some people who are executives at large scale mining companies, and one of them told me the complete opposite. He said he said, no. Actually, we have a fiduciary duty to switch mining pools on the fly if x, y, and z bad things happen. Like, we they they have a responsibility to ensure that, they switch. So I I I don't know I don't know what what the truth is. It's probably somewhere in the middle, but I I think that if, any of these large scale miners really needed to change their where their hash rate was pointed to, they could. I think they've they've definitely got clauses that allow them to do that. I don't know what those clauses are, but I think they exist.
[01:52:40] Unknown:
Either way, it's just another example of no one has any fucking idea what's going on.
[01:52:46] Unknown:
Yeah. For real. Well, I mean, I some something tells me that those clauses by which they have the fiduciary duty to switch if they're broken is not, you know, pool is censoring transactions or, pool is, you know, getting too large. I think that's the big deal. Right? Is that if the pool gets too large, that they have the potential to, act poorly. Right. You know, that that doesn't necessarily affect their bottom line. In fact, it might adversely affect their bottom line to switch off that pool, which they're getting a sweetheart deal from.
[01:53:25] Unknown:
Wow. I don't know.
[01:53:28] Unknown:
And yet solo miners still hit blocks, like the nerd x q plus plus.
[01:53:34] Unknown:
That was so cool. I love to see that. Yeah. It was it was really neat. And it was, it was especially cool because the person that hit this block, was running public pool self hosted.
[01:53:49] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. So this is public pool second block. Right? Public pool second block, first time solo mind.
[01:53:56] Unknown:
Nice.
[01:53:59] Unknown:
Oh, no. Sorry. I took that back. No. No. Okay. It was it's the nerd queue access second block first time solo mine. It's public pool second block, but first one with, like, a small open source miner.
[01:54:12] Unknown:
Oh, what was the first miner on public pool's first block? It was,
[01:54:18] Unknown:
it it was a much higher hash rate.
[01:54:20] Unknown:
Oh, okay. Okay. So they had, like, a, like, an s 19 or something
[01:54:26] Unknown:
run by I think they had They were self hosting public pool. S nineteens. Yeah. And they were self Gotcha. So that that was neat. But this one was, yeah, it was an open source miner. It was the near in QAX, which is a very awesome open source fork of the BitX.
[01:54:47] Unknown:
That's very sweet. It's happening.
[01:54:50] Unknown:
It was interesting, though. This guy, like, posted about it and, like, kinda came forward and was like, yeah. It was me. He posted about it on Reddit, which I can't read because Reddit does blocks Mullvad. Yeah. Yeah. That's bad. Fortunate. So I haven't read it, but several people screen shared it or, you know, captured it, showed a picture of it. But he was like, yeah. It was me. And he, like, told about his whole setup, which is obviously neat to hear. I wouldn't necessarily recommend coming forward if he sold a line of block, but he said he was gonna pay off his mortgage.
[01:55:23] Unknown:
That's amazing.
[01:55:26] Unknown:
Mortgage is cheap debt. He shouldn't do that. Yeah. I kinda feel like if you have that that, subsidized secured mortgage.
[01:55:34] Unknown:
Yeah. I think I'd rather not have the debt, though.
[01:55:39] Unknown:
Either way, this is financial advice.
[01:55:41] Unknown:
Yeah. For sure. No. Everything we say is financial advice.
[01:55:47] Unknown:
Yeah. That's super cool. Should I go through the Hashers?
[01:55:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Let's hear them.
[01:55:54] Unknown:
Alright. On Link Coin, shout out to Schnitzel Fish Tank Axe, Scott Offord from Open Hash Foundation, and Scott Offord from Bitcoin Mining World, and a new one, shout out to Tubaloo, who I was engaging with on x. He, he figured out a different way to talk to the Avalon Q's or mini three baseboard heater through home assistant with the the shell scripts. Oh, cool. So, I hope he shares some more about that because hopefully, we can learn from one another how to make this easier to do. But, you know, he was just brute forcing it. New to home assistant. Respect, man. That's awesome.
[01:56:30] Unknown:
Hell, yeah. This is the way.
[01:56:33] Unknown:
On solo c k pool, I have shout out to free cat is pain, life is misery, damn you, Scott. It's all your fault. JK still love you.
[01:56:43] Unknown:
So I Yeah. I I sort of, like, off handedly mentioned to, Keith Mukai that, FreeCAD is better than, Fusion three sixty because it's free and open source and doesn't license lock you into their cloud, and their SaaS model, but that it's a little rough. Yeah. FreeCAD's a little rough around the edges. Yeah. Keith just, like, went all in. He he, like, dug all in. He just posted today these, like, rad seed center, sunglasses that he three d printed. They're super cool. So, yeah. Shout out to him for just digging in and figuring it out because it is the way. And he did the design in FreeCAD? Yeah. Nice. With a trooper. Yeah. FreeCAD is is rough.
It's really hard to use, but, yeah. It's free. It's getting better fast.
[01:57:35] Unknown:
That's good. Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself. Shout out. Tried and true. Schnitzel wall axe, wood miners bit axe, rock paper bitcoin.fm, and two bits one block. Thank you for donating hash rate on social media. Name. I don't know who put that name there, but that one's funny.
[01:57:57] Unknown:
You are a funny person.
[01:58:00] Unknown:
On public pool, also two bits one block. Setting it up. Double shout out.
[01:58:08] Unknown:
How much hash rate is it? Is it like a bid ax on one and a bid ax on another or what?
[01:58:14] Unknown:
So 950 giga hash and 514 giga hash.
[01:58:20] Unknown:
I bet those are bit access. What do you think, Scott? Sounds like it. It's probably a, an Ultra or a Supra.
[01:58:27] Unknown:
Yeah. Hardestblocks.org. That is a cool site. We checked it out last. Pod and Stalin's bit axe. Thank you for donating Hashrate on Public Pool. And finally, on Ocean, shout out to Bible Huddle, forced, reckless apotheosis, apotheosis, mining. You can just build things. Apotheosis. Apotheosis. Jesus Christ. Sorry for using the lord's name in vain. Average bid acts. Because Andy proof of print, BitX won. Oh, also, shout out to Andy. He was the first one to secure his heat punk twenty twenty six ticket. Let's go. Hell, yeah.
[01:59:14] Unknown:
Wait. They're on sale?
[01:59:18] Unknown:
I gotta email you guys because I want you on panels. So it's coming differently to you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Teaser. Reckless Systems, watch this space. Seventeenth white paper day. That's right. Coming up Halloween. Zarkasay Hash Hub. BitX wannabe just an s 17 pro. And two bits one block again to wrap it up for eco. Hell, yeah. Thank you, guys. Two bits one block. That's a lot of hashers. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:59:48] Unknown:
I've got, three little bit access running in here. I've got a two zero five, a four zero one, and a six zero one, six zero two.
[01:59:58] Unknown:
Nice. You got the whole fleet.
[02:00:00] Unknown:
Yeah. I got them all pointed to the test ins test instance of Hydropool.
[02:00:05] Unknown:
I'm gonna do that right after this. I'm gonna do that right after this too.
[02:00:08] Unknown:
Yeah. I got some machines to, point at it.
[02:00:12] Unknown:
If you go to test.hydropool.org, you can see the dashboard for the pool and how the PPLNS distribution is is changing as more addresses sign in or sign in. I mean, point hash is what I mean. Oh, sweet. There there is no sign in process. I mean
[02:00:32] Unknown:
So Yeah. This is a good dashboard.
[02:00:35] Unknown:
Yeah. He Junglee did that with, Prometheus and Grafana. So Prometheus is the database component, and then Grafana is pulling from that database to display the time based variables in different formats. And, I think users are gonna like it. It's clean. It's simple. I really like it. I'm really happy with how hydropool is turning out.
[02:01:03] Unknown:
Good job, Junglee, for pulling this off. Like, that's that's really rad. Yeah. For Is he gonna be able to make it to to NEMS?
[02:01:10] Unknown:
That's a great question. And I don't know the answer, but I'll find out. It'd be awesome to see him. Yeah. I hope he is because we're planning on featuring all of the two fifty six foundation projects. So we'll be hashing with the number one. It'll be controlled by a Libra board, which will have the Mujina firmware on it, and it'll be pointed at hydro pool. What?
[02:01:34] Unknown:
Yeah. Just gotta get those parts out of jail. Yeah. Customs. Man.
[02:01:40] Unknown:
Yeah. Tell me about it. I'm working on it. So I'll, I'll definitely keep you guys posted as I make progress.
[02:01:50] Unknown:
Fantastic.
[02:01:53] Unknown:
Two hour mark, gents. Alright. Alright. What what's the network cache right now? Fourteen days.
[02:02:02] Unknown:
Well, mempool does one week. Oh, okay. 1.12 Zeta Hash.
[02:02:10] Unknown:
Man, people are just plugging machines all over the place. Insane. I would love to know what the, like, breakdown is,
[02:02:17] Unknown:
like, machine wise across the whole network. Yeah. Like, how many of those are s nines or Yeah. S nineteens or bit axis?
[02:02:27] Unknown:
Like, a month or two ago, I'd oh, it's on because you can look at the the estimated total energy consumption on that Cambridge analytics dashboard. And if you take the total hash rate and divide by that energy consumption, you get the average machine efficiency.
[02:02:41] Unknown:
I don't think it's Cambridge Analytics, but yes. I can. What is it? Cambridge University? What's the difference? Cave Cambridge Analytics was like that intel company that worked for Facebook to, like That's right. Rig the elections and shit. Oh, yeah. It was definitely that one.
[02:02:58] Unknown:
It's I'll get it right right now. Bitcoin dashboard. That's how in tune I am. Yeah. CCAF, Cambridge Digital Money Dashboard. Yeah. Blockchain network sustainability. Yeah. Because they're trying to track how much carbon we consume, unfortunately. But, anyways, they're estimating 26 gigawatts, 26 o one gigawatts for Bitcoin.
[02:03:27] Unknown:
You always gotta take that stuff with a grain of salt, because, like, even, like, right after the Chinese mining ban in '20 the 2021, that Cambridge University website still had, like, some 60% of Bitcoin network hash rate coming from China.
[02:03:46] Unknown:
So There's probably a lag. Yeah.
[02:03:48] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't well and and also you gotta think about, like, how they're working backwards to figure out that energy number. Like, there's no way for them to know for sure.
[02:04:05] Unknown:
So at best It's research, Iko. What are you talking about?
[02:04:10] Unknown:
This is Alright. Alright. I'm kidding. I mean, common sense would tell you.
[02:04:16] Unknown:
I just say that because I laugh and point fingers at all the people who's just point to studies as their their source of truth for life. Yeah. Because they're all manipulated and they're all fake. And education's a giant circle jerk.
[02:04:29] Unknown:
Yeah. I agree. I wish I had never wasted my time or money on college.
[02:04:36] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:04:38] Unknown:
There's a So with that, kids, drop out and work on Bitcoin. There you go. That is financial advice.
[02:04:49] Unknown:
Guaranteed returns.
[02:04:51] Unknown:
A 100%. A 100%. We're having fun.
[02:04:57] Unknown:
What were you gonna say, Scott?
[02:05:00] Unknown:
Oh, I was just thinking about trying to figure out what machines are present on the network. I still contend that if you looked at the Extronauts two from on chain Yeah. I was yeah. I think I think there's some there's some hints there as to what machine, solve the block.
[02:05:19] Unknown:
Because, like, certain chips only look at certain ranges of numbers.
[02:05:27] Unknown:
Yeah. The nonce the regular nonce. There there there is some data there and there was a group that did a study. This was several years ago. They did a study looking at the nonces and they they figured out the patterns of nonces from different machines. And then we're using that to kind of back out from the actual nonce that solved the block what machine it was. I think I think we could get some additional data from the extra nonce too, which is, it's a a bigger number that's stored in the Coinbase portion of the transaction, but it it's also controlled by the mining, firmware.
So there's gonna be differing patterns of how how often the externonts two is incremented based on the hash rate of the machine.
[02:06:15] Unknown:
Do you think there's any reason to not wanna fingerprint your machine, say, if you were building a firmware, right, or a miner? Would you be for or against this possibility of fingerprinting?
[02:06:28] Unknown:
I think about this a lot. So this has come up with a bid ax. We we could definitely put something into the extra notes too. Like, each miner could could that says, like, there's a bit ax. Like, we could put an arbitrary number in there because you get, like, eight bytes. We don't need that much. So we could put in a byte or or two that, you know, says that uniquely identifies the machine that solved the block as a Bitaxe. I think that would be neat from my own, you know, my own knowledge. But, yeah, there's there's also some risk there of anytime you're fingerprinting or uniquely identifying which miner, did it if it if it did get added, it would certainly have to be opt in or optional.
[02:07:16] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:07:17] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I I can't really think of any concrete examples, but I'm sure the parasitic state at some point could figure out a way to use that information against the individual. Yeah.
[02:07:30] Unknown:
But you know who who does know this is the pools. Right? Because every miner, when they connect to a pool, it sends, like, a user agent. It says, like, what machine it is, and it says what firmware version it's running. So the pools have this data. Just for their analytics? Like, they have it. Right? They get it every time the miner connects to the pool, it sends this information to them. So they know what hardware and firmware all the machines are running. I've talked with the guys at Ocean about this, and their stance is like, well, we don't save that. It's like, okay.
I wish we'll just trust that. But, yeah, the pool the pools, whether they save it or not, do have access to this information. That's that's another reason to self host your own, mining pool is that Yeah. You can Yeah. That was
[02:08:24] Unknown:
that was part of what informed our testing of hydro pool was that we set up a test server and asked we wanted to make sure that the server could work with a range of Stratum clients, so different mining hardware.
[02:08:40] Unknown:
Right.
[02:08:41] Unknown:
And because, like I was saying last week, like, they all communicate differently and, like, put stuff in different orders. So some of them could communicate with the server, and we found, like, others that wouldn't communicate. But what was key for us was the ability for us to monitor which, hardware and firmware, versions were having issues so that we could, like, go in and and fix things and check those off. And, so yeah. I mean, that's something I think jungly I don't know where they they used to be available. Like, you used to be able to grab those log files from test.hydropool.org. So, you know, the intention was that other developers would be able to use those log files because unless you're running a Bitcoin mining pool, you never see those logs.
But they can be useful for developers. So, I don't know where Junglee put those logs, but they're somewhere. And, all the, like, personally identifying information related to, like, geolocation, like IP addresses, those are all, removed. So there is no IP address information in those logs. Just, like, the basic, hardware and firmware info.
[02:10:06] Unknown:
If you go to web.publicpool.io, and scroll down, you can see a list of the type of miner of every type of miner that's connected. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's really interesting. It's informative. You can see that there's, like, a 100,000 Nerd Miners connected.
[02:10:23] Unknown:
Oh, man.
[02:10:25] Unknown:
It's really Woah. Yeah. If if you add up the the Nerdminer and the NMX, which is just some, like, knockoff Nerdminer, it's about a 100,000. And the total hash rate is less than one bit ax, for a 100,000 miners. That That's so crazy. Power of ASICs. But it is neat. And so what he's doing is just, collating all those those, user agents that each miner sends back and showing them. I don't think any other pool does that, but they certainly have access to that data.
[02:10:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Wait. There right now are 72,088 Nerd Miners with a total hash rate of one Terahash.
[02:11:10] Unknown:
A one Terahash? It's that much?
[02:11:12] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:11:13] Unknown:
Wow. Of the Nerd Miners? No way.
[02:11:18] Unknown:
That's what it says. Really? 72,000 currently working total hash rate. One point o. Yeah.
[02:11:28] Unknown:
Wow. I can't believe it's that much.
[02:11:31] Unknown:
CPU miner, 1,400 CPU miners, 19 gigahash.
[02:11:37] Unknown:
Wow. There was a dude who came through Bitcoin Park recently. I was out the day he came through, but a friend, Rob Hamilton, who started Anchor Watch. He was sharing pictures with me. This guy developed a keyboard that mines Bitcoin, and he open sourced it. So it's it's an MIT license. And you can, like, make this keyboard that mines Bitcoin in between your keystrokes. With just on the CPU that's in it? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. But in on in the keyboard. In the keyboard. Yeah. It's all in the keyboard.
[02:12:23] Unknown:
That's sweet.
[02:12:26] Unknown:
I gotta talk to Ben. I think something's wrong with that hash rate calculation. Someone must have gotten lucky.
[02:12:33] Unknown:
I think if I'm It should be less.
[02:12:35] Unknown:
I think if I'm doing my math right, that's 72 gigahash per NerdMiner. That's not right.
[02:12:44] Unknown:
There was that, NerdMiner killer hash. There was that issue where the NerdMiner scam firmware was, like submitting multiple, like, submitting the same share multiple times Yeah. To make it look like the hash rate was higher. Yeah. That was an m minor actually. That's
[02:13:06] Unknown:
Oh, okay. That one. Yeah. But Ben fixed that on public pool's end. Yeah. He said he fixed it. So I'm curious what's going on. I mean, it's all based on on luck. So if you get just absurdly lucky Nerd Miner, it could make the hash rate look higher. The hash rate True. Yeah. Or or something else. Or maybe his server's just borking due to all the connections from these little things. But, yeah, that's not that's not the right total hash rate. It can't be. Yeah. But I was thinking is it'd be neat, now we're we're working on this on the firmware, whether it's Magina or ESP miner on the Bitaxe, we should just have that user agent configurable.
Maybe it defaults to the right value, but you could type in whatever you want. Mhmm.
[02:13:56] Unknown:
As your hardware and firmware? Yeah.
[02:13:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Why not? It's trying to get sent back to the server. Like, you put whatever you want. You could put your a, you could make your Nerd Miner look like it's a s 23 hydro.
[02:14:10] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm gonna make mine a 1994 Toyota pickup. Yes.
[02:14:18] Unknown:
I like Dude, I ordered a a bunch of cool, like, Toyota Hilux graphic tees with 50 cals on the back of them. They're arriving today. Can't wait. But you have a Nissan. I know. No one makes merch for the Nissan hard body, dude. Oh, man. Don't do that. The cool part is my truck's niche. No one owns it.
[02:14:37] Unknown:
No. You have a badass truck. Don't get me wrong. Nissans are are sick. But don't put a bunch of Toyota
[02:14:45] Unknown:
instead of Toyota. Too. I have a four Runner.
[02:14:48] Unknown:
Put that stuff on the four Runner then. Yeah. That's true. It probably won't fit.
[02:14:57] Unknown:
Nice. Alright, gents. Well, I gotta wrap up here. Unfortunately, I have to do some mining.
[02:15:04] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm super busy and gotta go, so I'll see you guys later.
[02:15:10] Unknown:
Yes. Me too. Alright. That's a wrap.
[02:15:16] Unknown:
Good rip.
