POD256 | Bitcoin Mining, Freedom Tech, and Awesome Tangents

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In this episode of POD256, Tyler and eco catch up on winter in Colorado, project trucks, and then dive deep into the latest in Bitcoin mining and freedom tech. We recap last week’s conversation with Keonne Rodriguez of Samourai Wallet, the urgent push for signatures on the pardon petition, and practical ways to support; while clarifying privacy-friendly ways to sign. We also discuss GrapheneOS stepping back from France amid regulatory pressure, the broader trend of governments targeting toolmakers, and why freedom tech from Bitcoin mining to open hardware matters now more than ever.

On the mining front, we showcase Hydra Pool, our open-source non-custodial pool software, now running in our lab and soon to be public for Telehash #3 and beyond. We walk through the Grafana dashboard, PPLNS accounting for up to 100 addresses per coinbase, and our goal to migrate community hash over for solo mining support. We also update on Ember One and Libre Board: open-source hashboard and controller hardware moving through v5 prototyping on our pick-and-place, aiming for developer kits before fully assembled plug‑and‑play units. We hit Bitmain’s reported federal probe, solo block wins by small hashers, and the path to open hardware parity. We close with hasher shoutouts and a call to action: sign the Samourai petition and join Telehash to help fund open mining R&D.

[00:00:00] Unknown:

Too too late. Once I start the countdown, there is no stopping. We are not live with or without Tyler's new Wi Fi network.   This is pod two fifty six, episode number 97.   We are your   hosts, Tyler Stevens   of the space in Denver,   founder of   Exergy, or is it cofounder?   Cofounder. Cofounder of Exergy,   bringing Bitcoin mining heat to your homes and offices   everywhere in the globe,   shipping to 77 countries.   And   I'm a Cano Alchemist.   Welcome to the show. This is pod two fifty six number 97.   It's December 3   fourteen hundred   UTC minus six.  



[00:00:53] Unknown:

Thanks for the nice intro. I,   I I was like, yeah. Let me switch my Wi Fi the second you turn the the show on.   Yeah. Once I hit that go button, there's no going back. I won't touch it. We'll we'll risk it. I'm on our,   I'm on our, like, IoT system network, which isn't meant for computers   and phones. We'll see how it works. What's the limitation there? Bandwidth or what? No. Just isolation to keep our our head on straight because we've got 10,000 fucking temperature sensors and home assistant gadgets and minors in this building connected to stuff.  

[00:01:28] Unknown:

That's great.  

[00:01:30] Unknown:

It is great.   It is great.   But, yeah, thanks for the nice intro.   We got our first snowstorm here in in Colorado. You're missing the the western snow echo. Got, like, four inches outside right now. It's nice.  

[00:01:46] Unknown:

I'm sad. I wish I was there. It's very pretty.   Someone on Noster was giving me shit for leaving Colorado.  

[00:01:57] Unknown:

Well, you might get the fluke snowstorm in Nashville again this year. Yeah. It's it's not the same.   No. It's icy and   gray.  

[00:02:10] Unknown:

I heard there's a lot of car accidents.   I didn't hear that, but I walked to work. So Oh, okay. Yeah. So you're kind of immune to all that.  

[00:02:21] Unknown:

I did whip my truck out for the first time in, like, five months  

[00:02:25] Unknown:

this weekend. Because it has four wheel drive?  

[00:02:28] Unknown:

No. Just because I had I I've been, like, slowly taking it apart and put putting it back together, restoring it piece by piece, and it needed to stretch its legs. So I put the wheels back on it. It has no bumper, no headlights, no blinkers, but I went out for a drive. I was like, I hope I can get pulled over, but we were good.  

[00:02:44] Unknown:

No. It's good. I know the I know how it goes. I've had many project trucks that were like that, just half slapped together and rolling down the road. It's my problem the second I get a garage. I'm like, I can take it apart. Yep. I can just leave parts everywhere.   Yeah. It's so easy to take things apart. Putting them back together is a little bit harder though.  

[00:03:03] Unknown:

Yeah. But I was pumped to find out that a new headlight is $3 for my truck.   That's the beauty of these these old these old,   cars where they use, like, common parts across vehicles. You know? For as long as they're available.   Yeah.   Yeah.   What's been going on in the mining world? We,   we had a heavy hitter episode last week with Keoni.   I don't know if you wanna give an update on that. The, I saw a lot of tips have been coming out. You've been doing a lot of curation there and spreading the word. So  

[00:03:38] Unknown:

Yeah.   If anyone missed our episode last week, episode 96,   you can find it in your favorite podcasting app, or I also posted the video on the Bitcoin TV server.   So bitcointv.com.   Look for pod two fifty six. We had Keoni Rodriguez,   cofounder of Samurai Wallet on the show,   And he was   going through the whole Samurai Wallet situation with us   and,   talking about what people can do to support them and,   really just trying to get the message across   as clear as he can and to as many people as he can while he can,   because on December 19, he will be surrendering   himself,   to the Bureau of Prisons,   or   back to   judge Cote in the Southern District Of New York,   either or. But on the nineteenth, he's he's going into custody, unfortunately.  

And,   we are in the process of   doing putting numerous resources together to try and help out the developers first and foremost to secure a pardon from Donald Trump.   And,   you know, second to that, we're also trying to get,   fundraising put together to support the families,   during this time. So,   you know, anyone who's been following me has seen a number of those resources shared multiple times a day.   You know, my my main objective right now is to try and raise as much awareness as I can about   getting signatures   on that petition,   as one piece of a multi step strategy to   get the president's attention to issue a pardon.  

I I do think   president Trump would   look at this and recognize   that an injustice has taken place and correct it with a pardon.   It's just a matter of getting it in front of him. And so there's a number of things that have to happen to do that and conversations that need to happen and pieces that need to be in place and,   you know, high watermarks that need to be set and, you know, just one of the many pieces that go into that is the petition. So we're trying to get a 100,000 signatures   on that petition.   So   if you haven't signed the petition, go to change.org/billandkioni.  

It's billandkeonne.   And sign that petition.   If you have privacy concerns, totally understandable.   There's no requirement to use your legal name on the petition.   Even change.org   has in their documentation that it is a 100%   legitimate to use a pseudonym or an alias or your initials. You can put whatever name you want on there.   And if you don't wanna give them your the personal your daily driver email address, you can use a disposable email address. There's several services out there that do that.   I tried it with Gorilla Mail. That one did not work, but then I tried it with   Temp Mail and that one did work. So if you go to temp-mail.org,   that disposable email address   works. So, yeah, it's   it's it's going well. We've got over 3,000 signatures on the petition. Like I said, we've only got 97,000   more to go. So it's really just a matter of being consistent and getting the word out every day and get the message across.  

We got,   the Libertarian   Party of Oregon   to voice their support for the cause last night, so I was pleased to see that.   And,   you know, I'm trying to get the attention of senator   Loomis and   senator,   I think his last name is Wyden. They they signed that letter early on in after the indictment,   urging the DOJ to dismiss the charges. So,   trying to get their attention to see if they can follow through and show some support for this petition now that it's come to this point.   Trying to get the support of the Tor project because Samurai Wallet had donated $50,000   to Tor and supported them.  

So it would be nice to see   some support from,   an account like that, which has so many viewers.   But, yeah, just overall, just trying to get as much support from as many people as we can. So  

[00:08:33] Unknown:

Fingers crossed. Yeah.  

[00:08:36] Unknown:

So yeah.   You know, other than that, there's a give, send, go for the families.   We're gonna wait until   the developers   have surrendered themselves,   and they are no longer on bail   before we enable cryptocurrency payment options.   We are gonna do that, but as part of their bear as part of their bail conditions,   they're not allowed to   directly or indirectly interact with cryptocurrency. So we don't wanna,   cause them any more trouble. Mhmm. So after they surrender, then then we'll put those those payment options online.  

[00:09:14] Unknown:

Yeah. Nice. It's gonna be   one to track for sure.   That's really cool. The Libertarian Party of Oregon saw it, and, I hope the traction continues   to snowball   for this.  

[00:09:27] Unknown:

Yeah. I do too.   It's kind of   crazy. I mean, I've never, like,   tried raising this much awareness for an issue before, so,   I'm not a 100% sure what to expect. But I thought it was gonna be go a lot quicker. I thought it was gonna be a lot easier to get a 100,000 signatures.   Yeah.   You know, if you look at the petition, it's had some, like, I don't know, a 150,000   views, but only 3,000 signatures.   So it's got a very low conversion rate   in terms of people seeing it and following through and signing.   Signatures are only valid   if the signer   receives the confirmation   email   and clicks on that confer confirmation email link.  

Then it it that's how change.org   verifies that the person's not a bot   and that it is an actual person.   So, you know, if if people aren't confirming those emails, then then their signatures aren't getting counted.  

[00:10:30] Unknown:

Yeah. Make sure they're following through. Get those numbers counted.   Yeah. You   you made me think of something when you mentioned the Tor project.   Speaking of another project   that's been in my feed lately is, what's the update on the GraphiNOS guys?  

[00:10:47] Unknown:

Oh, yeah.  

[00:10:49] Unknown:

They, like, pulled out of France or something?  

[00:10:52] Unknown:

Well, they were contacted by a   a journalist in France.   I   from from what I understand, they were contacted by a journalist in France who   essentially said to them in so many words,   it's possible for criminals   to   use your software to commit crimes.   What are you doing to   put measures in place to prevent this from happening?   And   as a result, GrapheneOS   has pulled I I'm not sure exactly what infrastructure they had in place, but I think they had some servers running in France possibly, and they've since removed those and pulled any operations they did have out of France from what I understand.   Essentially, trying to   isolate themselves from what they   interpret as a hostile   jurisdiction,   which,   I I think they're   they're on the they're over the target   in terms of,   assessing whether France is a threat or not.  

You know, France famously arrested the CEO of Telegram.   So they're very hostile toward   software developers   and going after the   tool makers,   you know, not going   not so much going after the the people actually committing the crimes, but going after the people who are building things that criminals are using, you know, like   cars,   roads,   cash, jewelry,   artwork. Oh, wait. No. They're they're not arresting any of those   developers, just the ones that that do it in software.  

[00:12:38] Unknown:

The cool thing is   whoever runs the Graphion OS x account is basically just posting every update.   So they're they're keeping everyone informed on what they're doing, what they're getting asked,   how they're changing their operations,   laws they disagree with.   So it's it's very interesting to watch.   Yeah. France might be one of the,   the more trigger happy ones here to to shut them down or put pressure on them, but it wouldn't surprise me if the rest of the EU follows suit.  

[00:13:12] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, dude, it's just happening   all around us. You know, you heard me say it a 100   times a couple months ago when you were out here. I think   all governments trend toward totalitarianism.   Mhmm. And   it's freedom tech   in a digital age that has   become a fundamental part of a free society. And without that freedom   tech, then we will no longer have our god given rights.  

[00:13:40] Unknown:

What's your favorite piece of freedom tech right now? Do you have one that's new or exciting or you're trying to learn?  

[00:13:48] Unknown:

I mean, a couple of things. Like, well,   I think first and foremost, I'm the most fascinated with Bitcoin mining.   You know, I I really like that in terms of   I can just   plug   a machi a a bot a computer into my outlet   in the privacy of my own home   and start accumulating   Bitcoin that's not attached to my identity.   And there's no exchange.   There's no peers to trade with.   So long as I'm paying my electric bill,   I can get that Bitcoin. And so I just I think there's   a lot to be said for that. It's it it has become it it has become a little bit more frustrating in that, you know, you don't get as much Bitcoin as you used to for mining,   obviously,   by the nature of the design. But,   Yeah.  

You know, still, that's that's what it's there for. And what really excites me is when I see, like, solo blocks   mined,   you know, like solo c k pool, for example, when you see announcements like, oh, we had a miner with 200 Terahash who just won a block. So, you know, that Yeah. That just happened. Yeah.   That's   amazing. Like, that that individual is very empowered now with,   you know,   a couple few $100,000   worth of Bitcoin, almost $300,000   worth of Bitcoin.   And   nobody knows except for them. And that's great.   That's the way it should be.  

You know, so going a step further, it's like, okay. Great. You've, like,   acquired   this Bitcoin   through these means.   What are the implications of that? Well, you know, it's a censorship resistant network. So you can technically send that Bitcoin to whomever you want, whenever you want,   wherever you want, however you want, in any amount that you want, and nobody can stop you from doing that.   So I think that's very powerful to an individual,   especially in the face of legacy financial systems that have become prison walls   and,   just   are continually   like   moving in on the individual and and suppressing their ability to use their money the way they want to. You know, in practical terms, that looks like,   going down to the bank to withdraw $2,000   and being denied because that's   against the bank's policy or whatever bullshit reason they wanna make up or, you know, having your   online transactions automatically blocked and flagged because   there was something about it that the financial institution didn't like.  

You know, that's just never gonna happen with Bitcoin.   So, yeah, I I just I'm just the most fascinated with mining. And then I think secondary to that, guns. I'm just obsessed with guns.   Nice.   Nice.  

[00:16:57] Unknown:

Those are all good ones. We have a similar similar interest, Zika. Yeah. I'm sure most of our listeners do as well. Great minds think alike. Yeah. Yeah.   It is so cool that I was,   just   sitting on the couch last night with my fiancee, and we I have one of those brains mini minors, and it's in clock mode. And it's just so cool to just think   this thing's gonna, like, pay itself off one day. It's just making money privately. No one knows about it. Right. And and and it costs nothing on your electric bill. You don't even notice it. It's awesome. Do you have it pointed to brains?   I have it pointed to   our,   datum for the space right now. Okay. Alright. Yeah.  

Yeah. But I wanna get a we just got our Proxmox server up for   for Exergy,   so I'm gonna start playing around with hydro pool soon. Oh, cool. What's a Proxmox  

[00:17:50] Unknown:

server?  

[00:17:51] Unknown:

It's,   just like a a containerized   server OS that lets you spin up, virtual machines really easily. Okay. Word. And so you can run, like, Start nine in a Proxmox and then Gotcha. Home Assistant or our website, whatever.  

[00:18:06] Unknown:

There's some guys,   working on packaging hydropool for Start nine.  

[00:18:13] Unknown:

Nice. So they're  

[00:18:14] Unknown:

they're, you know, making   making headway in the GitHub repository,   with Junglee.  

[00:18:21] Unknown:

That's cool. Yeah. How's Junglee doing? I haven't heard. He's good.   Yeah. How are his project other than this one? He's doing very well. We've got  

[00:18:33] Unknown:

hydropool is released. So anybody can go to github.com/256foundation/hydropool,   and the code is there. You can you can start running Hydropool right now. It's   a super easy install,   so long as you've got some prerequisites in place.   You know, mainly you need to have a Bitcoin node,   ready to connect to.   Mhmm.   It's dockerized,   so you gotta have Docker installed.   But with those prerequisites   in place, it's basically like two commands   to get these, like, two configuration files.   And then you go in and change a couple parameters   in the config file,   update your bitcoin   dot conf file to match,   And then you've got,   you've got a pool.  

Actually, I can   I can share my screen, I think? Right?  

[00:19:33] Unknown:

Should be. Let's see.  

[00:19:39] Unknown:

So let me pull this up, and then I'll share my screen.   I've got so I've got an instance of Hydropool running on the desk here.   I took an old Dell   Optiplex ninety twenty,   flashed Ubuntu   server onto it Nice. And,   installed,   hydro pool and a Bitcoin node.   And   I've got about 12 Terahash pointed to it right now,   just testing things out. And so this is gonna be the machine that we run the telehash on next month,   January 21 in Nashville for the two fifty six Foundation fundraiser.   So let me just pull up this   local   IP address   and put in this port.  

K. There's Grafana.   And let's   see if I can share my screen.   There we go.   Okay. So you should be able to see that now.   But, yeah, this is what your dashboard will look like.   Here, maybe I should change the layout. Oh,   yeah. No. That looks good. Right?  

[00:21:13] Unknown:

You can see the branch menu? Yep. Okay.  

[00:21:19] Unknown:

So,   yeah, this is what your your layout looks like.   I've got five workers connected to it right now.   They're all pointed at the same address. This is the address that the 256 Foundation mine that block to.   So that's why this whole circle is just one color.   This is set up to do PPLNS.   So, like, if you wanted to host,   hydropool   for your friends or your community or for the public at large,   whatever you wanna do, you can do that. And,   this will account for up to   a 100 users by default in the Coinbase reward. So it's designed to be non custodial.   It breaks the limitations   that, Bitmain has put in place that has affected the entire industry   where   normally, you cannot have more than some, like, fifteen, sixteen   Bitcoin addresses in the Coinbase.  

This breaks that because fuck Bitmain. That's their problem. We're moving forward with the future Bitcoin mining.   And,   you can have a 100 addresses in the Coinbase reward if you want.   There's also instructions on how to change the block weight,   and how to, like, arrive at that calculation if you want more or less.   So that's in the GitHub repository if you wanna do that.   But, yeah, if I had, like, several addresses   pointed or if I had,   several addresses configured for the five workers, that would all get divvied up,   in this circle.  

Best share   is displayed here. Uptime is displayed here.   You can see I've got five workers, one user because they're all using the same address, and then your your hash rate. And I've got about, you know, 12   terahash on average   with   a with a nerd q x plus plus that That's new. Right? Sent me. Didn't you just get that? Yeah. I just got it yesterday, dude. They sent It looks sweet. They sent one to me. It's amazing. It's got a red PCB, and it's got the graphic of the little tick from the Parasite logo   on it. And,   I had never used   a a NerdMiner   or a NerdAxe or let alone a NerdQAxe   plus plus,   but I was just   really blown away with the little interface   on the device because it's it's bright. It's colorful.  

It's clear. It's just it's just very   well polished interface. I've got it sitting on the shelf right there next to me. It's quiet.   It makes, like, five terahash.  

[00:24:02] Unknown:

That's cool. Yeah. I've never played funny enough. Really nice. Like,  

[00:24:08] Unknown:

it's like the size of a shoe box and then Yeah. It came with, like, everything you need, like, power supply, a little instruction card,   a little stand for the miner.   Yeah. It was just all there. It was just a great,   setup experience   and the dashboard looks good. So I'm just all around really happy with it.   Nice. So, yeah, I'm using that to test hydro pool right now.   I'm gonna be   updating   the hydropool.org   website   to   post a step by step guide on how I set this one up for anyone who wants to do the same.   You know, if you're   familiar with command line and you're,   you've got some chops with GitHub, like, it should be no problem for you to look at the hydropool repository   and get all the information you need to spin up an instance of hydropool.  

For   everyone else   like myself who's not a programmer, who was not familiar with command line when I first got into this,   having those step by step instructions,   I find to be very helpful.   So I am putting that together. So that should be on the website in the next couple days.   And then we're gonna bring Junglee on the podcast to talk about everything we've done and try to encourage people to,   spin up their own instances of hydro pool.   You know, I'm I'm gonna leave this server online, but it's not our intention to become like   a standing,   pool operator.  

We don't you know, the two fifty six foundation doesn't wanna operate a pool, but, you know, I'll run this little server as for as long as it   runs until it just becomes too problematic for me or I just don't have the bandwidth to deal with it. Well, we could have one for  

[00:26:01] Unknown:

our hashers. Right?  

[00:26:03] Unknown:

Well, yeah. I'm gonna I'm running this for the,   for the telehash.  

[00:26:08] Unknown:

Yes. But what about our weekly hashing supporters too? Yeah. I wanna get  

[00:26:14] Unknown:

our hashers,   migrated over   to this hydro pull instance. I haven't opened it up to the world at large yet.   You can only access it from the   internal network here Gotcha. Right now.   So after I get that guide posted and we got Junglee on the show,   then I think I'll open it up to the public at large.   And,   what I'd like to see happen is to have   anyone who's pointing us hash rate on, like, our ocean account or solo CK pool account or public pool account migrate that hash rate over to our hydro pool instance.   And we'll just solo mine with that hash rate and hopefully hit a block.   But I just   I think it it's   neat that,   you know, less than a year ago,   we hit that block at our fundraiser,   had the idea to make our own mining pool,   and now we've got it. We've built it. It's here. It's running. You can use it today.  

So I just wanna, like, eat our own dog food, so to speak, and have   our hashers who wanna support pod two fifty six point that hash rate to,   the an instance of a pool that that we built.  

[00:27:33] Unknown:

Hell, yeah.   So   Well deserved. That's awesome.   Yeah.   And then,   yeah, like you said, it's it's not about   us becoming a big   pool host, but more so the tool is available for anyone else to go do it. Right. Exactly.   So you gotta spread the word, get it out there. Packaging for start nine and things like that, Umbrel would also be super helpful, I think, for a lot of folks.  

[00:28:00] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, what we're looking for now is, like, people who   have that drive and ambition who, like,   want to see this on start nine and want to see this on Umbrel. Like, go to the GitHub repository   and   pull that code into your environment and start helping us   build it and, you know, be that change you wanna see in the world. We need the help.  

[00:28:23] Unknown:

Dylan asked us a question in the chat. He said,   will I be able to read the worker names when everyone's on hydro pool?  

[00:28:31] Unknown:

Yes.   I did not   show that   on my screen.   But, yeah, if, like, at the top of the page, there's, like, a tab for users and workers.   You can click on that, and then it'll show it should everything should show up in there.   So, yeah, that's in there, and you can see the worker names.   So we'll still be able to give shout outs.  

[00:28:57] Unknown:

Very nice.   What else is going on? Did you, there was a handful of solo blocks solo small minor blocks hit in the past, like, November.   Weren't there? There was a bit ax. There was   200 Terahash miner, then one with, like, 700   or something.  

[00:29:16] Unknown:

Yep.   What was it? Just those three?  

[00:29:19] Unknown:

I think those are the three I recall that I took note of, but there might have I mean, it felt like I saw one every other day for a streak there. Right. Yeah. I love seeing that. Yeah. It's so cool.   And,   oh, we didn't get to talk about this last week, but   I'll pull up the article. Bitmain Bitmain is facing a federal investigation over national security concern. Oh, yeah.   Because we we chat a little bit offline about this. But Yeah. What kind of sketchy shit are they doing now?   So this is an article in Bitcoin Magazine from November 21   by Micah Zimmerman   titled Bitcoin miner, Bitmain faces federal investigation over national security issues report.  

The inquiry dubbed operation Red Sunset, led by the Department of Homeland Security, reportedly examined whether the company's machines could be remote remotely manipulated for espionage or sabotage of critical US infrastructure.   So they're concerned about, like, where where the machines end up, I think, if they're placed nearby   to strategic   United States   bases, military bases, government property,   electrical grid infrastructure.  

[00:30:31] Unknown:

Dams.  

[00:30:33] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah.  

[00:30:34] Unknown:

Yeah. Like, if there was gonna be some elaborate   Chinese   attack   on   The United States,   like, this is exactly what it would look like. Right? Like,   infected   computer hardware   getting installed in close proximity to power generation sources and   and critical infrastructure.  

[00:31:01] Unknown:

And what do those machines do? They eat power at full bore. Like  

[00:31:05] Unknown:

Yeah. And then you've got so, you know, before you know it, you wake up one day and you're in some, like, Stuxnet situation,   where,   this critical infrastructure is just getting demolished.   I I mean, I don't know how plausible any of that is that's above my pay grade. Like, I just I don't understand,   cybersecurity well enough to know, like   like,   if that's even plausible.   But From what I from what I do understand about   the way ASIC chips are built and designed,   and some people would argue with me on this and and that's fine,   but I believe that the ASIC can, like, only do   one thing. It's only going to do SHA two fifty six on Bitcoin block headers.  

And that is,   like, because of the way   it's   the silicon is formed. Like, it's it's physically can't, like, do anything else except for that.   So I think if there is something malicious about Bitmain's hardware, I don't think it's the ASIC chips.   But there's plenty of other,   like, integrated circuits and,   you know, god knows what the firmware is doing   that's running on the control board. So, you know, there's plenty of   other ways to   hide malicious   code.   So I I mean, I can see   I can see what the concern is, you know, but,   especially given Bitmain's history with, you know,   Covert ASIC Boost and amp bleed,   you know, their ability to remotely shut off miners.  

So it's you know, they've had that problem before where they Yeah. Could, like, remote in.  

[00:33:04] Unknown:

It's funny that the feds came to the same   predicament that we're in, which is like,   well, how do we check if they can do this thing? Oh, let's just look at the firmware. Oh, we can't see the firmware.  

[00:33:15] Unknown:

Yeah. Exactly.   So, you know, if you've just got that   blob and then, like, working backwards from that, I mean,   maybe the government has the resources to do it, but it's, like,   from what I understand, it's not an easy task. So, like, good luck with that. But it's all to say that,   having open source firmware   fixes this. Right? Like,   if you can see exactly what all the firmware is doing, then   Correct. If you have any questions, you can just go look at it and and figure it out.  

[00:33:52] Unknown:

Mhmm.   Well, Bitmain reportedly stated it complies with US law, has no ties to the US government, and denied awareness of operation Red Sunset. So everything's pretty good. Yeah. Of course, they did. Yeah. But I think that, like, tied into the reason  

[00:34:09] Unknown:

they were seizing   shipments   of Bitmain   Mhmm. Miners at US ports.   Do you recall headlines   along,   that?  

[00:34:21] Unknown:

I do remember that. That was a few months ago? Yeah. Like, over the summer. Was it just Bitmain, or did it apply to,   like, What's Miner as well?  

[00:34:31] Unknown:

All I recall hearing is Bitmain. I don't know if it if other miners were affected or not, though. They could have been, but all I recall is hearing Bitmain's name.   So, yeah, who knows, man?  

[00:34:45] Unknown:

Who knows?   Who knows, indeed.   That would be a big a big risk, though, if,   well, one, you don't want machines that you don't know exactly what they're doing or what they're capable of doing near sensitive infrastructure.   I get that. But, also, it's just a problem if that's, like, also 80% of the market share,   and then   they're banned from coming into The US. And   what are your options to get a Bitcoin miner, and it's it's severely limited? Like, we shouldn't be in that scenario.  

[00:35:15] Unknown:

One would think that   even if the Bitcoin miners   were aggressively malicious   and designed to attack The United States,   that the   critical infrastructure components would be well isolated enough that this shouldn't be a concern,   even if they were malicious.   Right? Like,   you know, if I if I'm thinking about, like,   a a large Bitcoin   mining operator   in close proximity   to, say, like, a hydro dam,   there's   the dam itself   and   all the PLCs   and and computer   infrastructure that goes into, like, making the dam operate.   And then somewhere close by is the   Bitcoin miners.  

I I don't know. Like, maybe they're on, like, the same network and not insulated from each other, but you would just you just think that stuff is   separated somehow and,   you know, maybe there's, like,   an API   that is giving signals to   the Bitcoin mining operation to tell it to, like,   spin up or spin down miners based on the load   that is on the power asset at that time. Right? But,  

[00:36:42] Unknown:

but it makes me think of a situation that our friends,   Eric and Philip at gridless compute.   I forget where I heard this. I think it was at imagine if Philip was talking about how   they needed their miners to keep hashing on dummy work even when the Internet went out. Right? Right. And they needed that because they're, like, trying to balance an energy problem. And if the miners stop consuming energy at the flip of a switch, then they'll burn out the generator   and fuck up the whole power generation site. Right. And so but to your point, like, in critical national defense,   energy infrastructure in The United States, like, that shouldn't be possible. It should be isolated   Right.  

From the Bitcoin mine. But, yeah, it's very interesting.  

[00:37:27] Unknown:

Yeah. We have no idea where the nuclear silos are at, so   that could be right next door to Mara.   That's true. Who knows?  

[00:37:39] Unknown:

And then I saw   that was also funny. Scott and I were kinda dogging on   Eric Trump. Not that he saw it, but he posted an interesting video showing off his   American Bitcoin mine. Oh, yeah. I think it's in Texas.   Eric Trump invested with it. Who is it with? Was it with the Winklevy? I don't know. I don't know.  

[00:38:02] Unknown:

It's some sort of partnership, though. But yeah.  

[00:38:04] Unknown:

Yeah. For American Bitcoin, the company's called American Bitcoin, large   mining operation.   But,   he gets up close in the video to all the infrastructure, and it's all Bitmain and Hut eight.   I don't know much about Hut eight, but I know that all the miners were   hydro Bitmain, which is just ironic   American Bitcoin  

[00:38:23] Unknown:

mining with Chinese Bitcoin miners. So Well, right. I mean, like, what other choice do they have right now? You know? Exactly.   The only other, like, American miners are, like, Bitax. Well,   Auradyne's American. Right? Auradyne.   Yeah. And I know What's Minor is technically a Chinese company, but they've I believe they've spun up,   manufacturing   operations in The United States.  

[00:38:50] Unknown:

I've heard that as well.   Have you even heard that?   I don't know if it's coming or if it's happened for Bitmain also.   I don't think a lot of these miners are made in China anymore Yeah. Right. As a whole. Right.  

[00:39:03] Unknown:

And what about CanAn? Are they in America?  

[00:39:06] Unknown:

They have a US company. I think it's more managing their repair centers, though. Okay. I think it's a Singaporean com company that does the design.  

[00:39:15] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, like, when Bitmain has, you know, 90%   of the market share,   like, that's just what   what's gonna happen.   Proto machines, I think, are made   mostly in The United States.   I know I think some of the components are made in China. If I recall, like   like, the power supply or something said made in China.  

[00:39:39] Unknown:

Yeah. There were when we saw them in Georgia, there were some sticker labels that said made in China. But,   yeah, it's hard. I mean, it's this is not unique criticism of Bitcoin mining. This is, like, the state of America. Everything's made in   overseas right now. Right. So Yeah.   It's true. Except for the BitAxes. There's a lot assembled here. Isn't this similar to, like,  

[00:40:06] Unknown:

the issue they were having with,   Huawei,  

[00:40:09] Unknown:

the Huawei. Yeah. Yeah. The Chinese cell phone company, like Well, they're banned. You can't even bring them into The   US anymore, I don't think, Huawei.  

[00:40:19] Unknown:

And that's because of, if I understand correctly, like, over, like, security concerns. Right? Like Yeah.  

[00:40:26] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. They made laptops,   phones, tablets.   Now they make, like, cars and everything.   Mhmm.  

[00:40:36] Unknown:

Anytime they're telling me, like, it's for your safety that   Huawei can't bring these devices into The United States, it I just instantly   questioned   the trail of money.   And, like like, surely,   the other electronics manufacturers,   like, lobbied   the the government to make that   that move. Right? Like, similar to, like, what they did with Toyota   in importing diesel The chicken tax?  

[00:41:05] Unknown:

Yeah. On trucks. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.   It's yeah. Totally. There's no free markets. It's,  

[00:41:12] Unknown:

completely manipulated in that sense. That's for sure. I And then they just package it up like, oh, yeah. It's like sketchy Chinese hardware that's gonna spy on   on our on our poor American citizens that we care so much about. So this is for everyone's own safety.   And that that's just how they spin the narrative.  

[00:41:30] Unknown:

Yeah. And if they wanted to spy on us with hardware, that stuff's getting across   the ocean here anyways.   I don't think we can stop it. Yeah.   Yeah.   Well, we'll see what happens. I don't know what prompted this article,   this operation   red sunset   investigation by the feds. It doesn't really talk about   timelines or who's doing the investigation.   You know, it references in May 24 them blocking the Bitcoin mining site near a nuclear missile base in Wyoming. I do remember that headline.  

[00:42:06] Unknown:

Yeah. I recall hearing that one too.  

[00:42:10] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:42:12] Unknown:

Has there been any updates to it? Like, we we don't know which agency would, like, publish a report if they were gonna   do that anyways.  

[00:42:22] Unknown:

No. Okay. I mean, Department of Homeland Security   is who   coined the operation   Red Sunset.   That's who what they dubbed it.   And then it says, the commerce department blacklisted Bitmain's AI affiliate,   SoftGo Technologies,   in January 25 over alleged dealings with Huawei.   Yep.   Well, we'll see.   I mean,   yeah, it's it's all just indication of we're really in the early days of Bitcoin mining, that this is the status quo   what people deal with.   It's,   I constantly feel like I'm going crazy just   the only one who's   pulling my hair out   and looking at the situation saying, like, why is this the norm?  



[00:43:17] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:43:18] Unknown:

I don't know if it'll last for I hope it doesn't last for much longer. But  

[00:43:22] Unknown:

Well, I think a lot of other people see it. You know? I I know a lot of other people see it, and they,   we're   I think the the biggest   obstacle right now is, like, getting the open source hardware up to the same, like, power and efficiency specifications   as   Yeah. The   incumbent hardware that we're trying to replace. Right? Mhmm.   So   it's like everyone looks at, like,   the BitX,   you know, like, oh, well, that's a cute toy. You know, you're never gonna, like,   have a successful mining operation with it. Your cost per terra hash is too high. And there were all these, like, criticisms. And I think a lot of those people   were just kinda missing the the broader point of the BitX, which was that   we're developing   open source   Bitcoin mining hardware. And, yes,   it's just a single chip.  

Yes. It has low Terahash,   high cost per Terahash,   but   it's a first step   on a path toward   having   those competitive solutions. And I I I know we're gonna get there, but it's like   there's gotta be iteration after iteration   and   little   incremental   developmental gains that accumulate over time.   And, eventually, you know, we'll look back and be like, wow.   Like,   look. We went from, like, having a bid ax to having, like, the nerd,   QX plus plus, which is, like,   three times the size of a bit ax   to you know, there's gonna be another generation of a bigger miner. I've I'm already seeing, like, pictures of these, like,   nerd   QX   gamma turbos.  



[00:45:14] Unknown:

Oh my gosh. Like, double  

[00:45:16] Unknown:

nerd QXs, like, put together. Yeah. It like, they're almost the size of, like The OctaX? I've heard of that one. Yeah. Yeah. They're, like, almost the size of, like, a an industrial   like, a Bitmain hash board. You know? So,   we're gonna get there. It's just it's just gonna be a matter of time. And then when we do get there, it's gonna be like, well,   you know, all the   all the excuses   and all the criticisms are just, like, gonna get cut down   until eventually   consumers are left with the choice of, like, well, I can get this,   like,   made in China minor with closed   firmware   and proprietary   connectors and hardware,   or,   I can get something that has roughly equivalent   power consumption and efficiency   and hash rate output.  

And it's,   the hardware design is open and the firmware that's running on it is open source. There's no dev fee. There's no chance for, like,   you know, sketchy,   national   security concern level   shenanigans going on under the hood.   It's totally customizable.   I can change it to   really fine tune my unique operations.   I just I think it's gonna be a no brainer.   But I think until we get   to the point where the open source solutions are competitive   at those,   Terahash output levels, like,   a lot of people are just gonna look at them like cute toys in the meantime.  

[00:46:59] Unknown:

Yeah. People don't want to   put in the work,   take the initiative to get it to that point. They just want it to work and be ready and be as efficient as possible   for their operation.   Because   Sorry. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, I think even Canaan, the smaller smaller market share companies, Proto, they're gonna face that uphill battle   with polished devices. Right? Closed source aside   for, like,   some of the industrial guys. It's like, if you're not the biggest fish with the most efficient rigs, then you're already struggling.  

[00:47:31] Unknown:

Right.   Dylan said, EMBR one soon trademarked in the chat. Yes.   So I don't know if can you see the pick and place machine behind me? Yeah.   So I've got the first EMBR one v five   prototype   on the deck there. Let's go. And then I don't know if you can tell, but, like, that silver plate next to it, I'm, like,   using double stick tape to lay down all the,   strips of components   on there. And I'm, like,   slowly,   over the last couple days, I've been building the program   to   run the pick and place machine and get all the   components populated onto the circuit board. How's that learning experience been?  

Very tedious   and,   painful. Like, every step of the process is like a whole new learning curve for me. Because, like, a,   I am not familiar with KiCad, so I have to learn KiCad software   where I'm, like, getting all the information from.   B, I'm not familiar with   the Neodym software, so I'm, like, learning that software.   And then,   c, I'm, like,   just, like, trying to figure out how to make the two   things   work together, which,   you know,   I have to use a Python script to, like, export a file in one format from KiCad,   run it through this script that, like, formats it in a way   that the NeoDEN   machine will   appreciate   and   and actually look at and understand,   and then give that file to the Neodent software.  

And then,   you know, the file in particular I'm talking about is like the compo the component placement file, which has like all the coordinates where everything needs to go. So it's like,   you know, at a high level, you   you export all those coordinates   from KiCad   and they go into the Neodyn software and then the machine knows   where all the components are supposed to go.   And there's, like, some fine tuning you have to do there. And my dog is snoring in the background if you hear any any I don't hear. Sounds behind me. Yeah. That sounds tedious.   Yeah. So you like, that's how you tell it, like, where the components need to go. But then   you need to, like, put the components in the machine   and   then   program the machine so it knows where to pick the component up from.  

And,   like,   there's a lot of variables in that. Like, you have to tell it, like, how far down the work head has to go to pick up the component,   how far down the work head has to go to drop the component,   like, what the vacuum pressure should be,   you know, what the footprint and size of the component is, what the coordinates are. Like, it's just a a lot of tedious programming just like and there's like   you know, I'm just doing one side of the board right now, the backside of the board, and there's like 210   components that need to be placed.  

And so it's just like going, like, line by line, like, configuring all these different settings,   to get everything right.  

[00:50:44] Unknown:

How many do you have to make   to make the time investment worthwhile?  

[00:50:49] Unknown:

That's a great question.   So, like, I'm up against a a very steep learning curve, so I'm moving extremely slow right now.   I can definitely like, I'm starting to, like, grasp how all the pieces fit together and, like, how the software works and what all the parameters mean.   So I can definitely see how this is gonna get how this is gonna speed up a lot significantly.   But, you know, I'm just trying to do five boards. And so that's why   I'm, like, taping the components   to the   to that table in there.   Normally, the you know, when it's in production, the components will be loaded on, like, a   reel of tape.  

And that gets loaded in the side of the machine.   And then   that   that alone   is gonna significantly,   speed things up.   So  

[00:51:44] Unknown:

That's really cool. Yeah. Because is that machine meant for like, what would you categorize it as? Is it meant for a mass production   facility, more like a hobbyist who's cranking things out, a small company? Like So,  

[00:51:58] Unknown:

basically, from what I've read about pick and place machines, there's, like, three   categories of pick and place machines. There's, like, the hobbyist pick and place machine,   which is, like,   the electrical engineer who has their workshop set up at home,   and they wanna make some prototypes and just   test things out.   The next level is like a prosumer   tier where it's   like,   yeah. You could do, like, the hobbyist prototyping stuff,   but you could also like, it's got a lot of nice features and   integrations that make it capable   of cranking out a lot of circuit boards if you wanna do that as well,   and, you know, enough so that you could actually run a business off of it.  

That's the tier that this machine came from. It's like the prosumer   level. And then there's, like, the professional   pick and place machines   where it's like Mhmm. You're not gonna be doing onesies, twosies out of those things. They could cost   anywhere from,   like, $250,000   to, like, a million dollars a piece.   And those are, like, the machines where, you know, it's gonna you're gonna crank out, like, 10,000 units at a time.   So They're huge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they, like, you know, they take up   significant space in a factory floor.  

[00:53:24] Unknown:

Speaking of   number one,   and the the rest of the projects, how are things going?  

[00:53:31] Unknown:

Well, it's good.   A lot   of a lot of the projects are just kinda like in this holding pattern right now until,   I get these boards off of this machine. So like I said, I'm doing, like, five of these Ember one prototype boards. So once I've got those built, I'm sending them out to the developers   to help me help validate   and verify that we got this design right and it's doing everything we want it to do.   You know? And then at that point, if we see something that we don't like or didn't expect and we need to make a change,   then we've gotta go back into the design files, make another revision, do those changes,   push it to GitHub. And then I've gotta, like, grab those files from GitHub and start the process all over again Right. And reorder the bill of materials and reorder the PCBs   to do, like, five pieces   and then set it all up on the pick and place machine, put them together, and then validate them and make sure everything works.  

So   we're pretty confident this this is our fifth revision. So we're pretty confident that this is gonna be the one that works   the way we want it to.   So, you know, once I get these done and out to the devs to validate,   then   we're gonna do a small batch of, like, a 100 of them. And I'm gonna build them here in this shop.   And then   and then Bitcoin Park is gonna sell those.   So   and and just to clarify, like,   all the equipment in here is from a private venture. It doesn't have anything to do with the two fifty six Foundation. It's totally separate. So the two fifty six Foundation   is making the designs.  

And then   here at Bitcoin Park, we've got everything set up and Bitcoin Park is gonna be distributing   the hardware once we do get it rolled off the assembly line.   Then there's   LibreBoard. So I've got the PCBs and I've got the components   for LibreBoard sitting on the shelf.   And I've as soon as I've got the Ember one boards done, then I'll do the same thing for Libre board. And then same thing, I gotta send those out to everybody to help me validate and make sure they work.   I think we've already identified a few changes that we need to make, so there's definitely gonna be at least a version two.   So, yeah, we'll have to do that all over again.  

But those are my, like,   my my first priority items right now. And then I've also got components and PCBs   for edit boards   and for Anthats.   So,   the Adit board is what enables   peep enables people to speak to their Antminer hash boards via USB c.   And then the Ant Hat allows you to control the fans,   on the Antminer,   using a Raspberry Pi.   So  

[00:56:31] Unknown:

Sweet.   And for for folks that might wanna get one of those first 100 m b ones, how do they do that? Do they show up at Bitcoin Park? Do they send a message? They're pretty much all accounted for. So we've got the Telegram group for the two fifty six Foundation,  

[00:56:49] Unknown:

and   there's been enough interest expressed in that group to account for all 100 of those.   So I think they're all gonna be spoken for for those first 100, but those are intended for   developers   and   do it yourselfers who wanna help us figure out some reference,   peripheral   components that we need. So, like, for example Right. We don't know exactly which is gonna be the best power supply for these 100 watt Amber one units.   But the idea is that if we get a 100 of them out to   people that like testing and developing,   then we can simultaneously   try a bunch of different power supplies. Like, everybody's gonna get different power supply units. So we can get some feedback from them about   what they're experiencing, what problems they're having, and which power supply units are working better than others.  

Same thing with the,   cooling blocks,   like, that go on top of the a six.   I think there's a guy who's   designing,   an air cooled block,   but there's no reason that those couldn't be water cooled.   So,   you know, we're gonna need help figuring out, like, the best cooling methods,   fans as well   Yep.   So   for the air cooled ones. But yeah. We just need help, like, figuring out all those references. So that's what that batch of a 100 is intended for.   And then, like, really what I wanna do is, like,   create   or produce, you know, fully assembled   units that have   everything ready to go, plug and play   so that people can just, you know, purchase it. They receive a box like a like I did with that, like,   Parasite   NerdQX. Like, just this, like, nice packaged unit that's just like, you open it up. You've got everything you need to plug it in and start hashing, and it's just a really good user experience.  

So I'd like to do that with the Amber ones where it's like, you know, I've designed   and   three d printed   or maybe I get, like, a local metal fab shop to make the housing.   And then   I'm doing units that have, like, you know, like an ember one solo that's just got one hash board and one control board.   And, you know, it's got the the heat sink on it and the fan and and the power supply and everything you need to get started,   or there's, like, a Ember One Duo that's got two hash boards in it or a Trio that's got three or a Quadro that's got four because one Libri board will support up to four hash boards.   So,  

[00:59:33] Unknown:

yeah. Yeah. Because they are intended to be reference designs. Scott's hammered on that well as have you. Meaning, you can go and look at all the open source free and open source documentation. You could make modifications to the dashboard geometry itself, the number of ASICs, all these things to to go completely custom. But   just by the nature of this community and where we're at in the industry, people are also just gonna wanna buy these number one open source miners, these reference boards that can be used as this platform to build on top of, but also just as complete kits, maybe with a couple of hashboards, different, different,   orientations, different cooling methods, etcetera, whatever. So there's gonna be your, like,   number one, nerd Ember one or something.  



[01:00:16] Unknown:

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we want we want people to, like that's why it's open source so people can take this stuff and   make derivative works out of it. Mhmm. You know? It's a very simple ask. The license just stipulates   that   you contribute back the changes you've made,   in   under the same open source license.   And I I think that's a very reasonable ask. So  

[01:00:45] Unknown:

It's exciting. I'm really excited to see what   what kind of applications   and form factors and   orientations of Hashboards, the whole lot comes of the the first folks getting hands on.  

[01:00:58] Unknown:

Yeah. You know, I hope it works. I I really think   that the sky is the limit in terms of   what Bitcoin mining   can be integrated with.   But   that's never gonna happen with, like, the Antminer, shoebox miners   that don't have   the ability to be customized to any sort of, like, form factor or tweak settings that the end user needs.   So I Right. I really hope   that. And and I think it will happen, but,   I just I would like to see people taking this stuff, tweaking   it, and and creating awesome   businesses built on top of open source.  

[01:01:42] Unknown:

For the folks that   say   are happy with the reference design of ember one,   version one or zero zero one,   and they're waiting on the next one to come out with the next chip, right, that's more efficient, will those stay the same form factor, the reference boards?  

[01:02:00] Unknown:

Mhmm. Yeah. We've done it. I think it's a 130   millimeters square   is the hash board.   And that way, they those hash boards will slide right into an s nine chassis.   So,   you know, if you've got old s nines laying around, you can pull those,   hash boards out, and these hash boards will slide in there.   The Lieber board,   form factor was   designed to   match that 130 millimeter by 130 millimeter footprint.   So, yeah, those those footprints for the ember one series are gonna remain consistent   no matter which chip is on it. So, like, we're gonna be doing a number one with the Intel b z m two chip next.   That design will have that same form factor.  

And, you know, have keep having that in mind, like, when we went to build the firmware,   we we built Magina in such a way that it can support,   multiple   hashboards   with different ASICs on them simultaneously.   And,   you know, no matter how the ASICs need to receive the work or have it divvied up, like, the Mujina firmware has the ability   to just detect   which hash board is plugged into it, you know, over USB c. So it just it recognizes it like any other USB device.   So Mujina has the ability to,   recognize   what kind of hash board is there, load the necessary drivers,   and start hashing,   without having to reset the system, without having to interrupt the mining that's happening on the other hash boards. Like, you can just pull a sing like, if you've got four of them in your   in your chassis, you can pull one of them out,   replace it with your upgraded hash board,   and and it the rest of the mining system  

[01:03:58] Unknown:

is not interrupted at all. That gets me really excited because   something that I've struggled with with,   people come to me and they say, how many how many Bitcoin miners do I need to heat my home, right, or whatever,   heat this room,   heat my pool.   And they come in these, like, 3,000   watt chunks, which is you don't have much resolution. Right? Right. And so if you can kind of dial in the number of hash boards and not waste money on extra ASICs that you're not gonna buy,   you suddenly make it way more,   way easier for people to enter into, like, home mining without   overspending or getting more than they need or something too complicated or industrial. This is really cool. Yeah. No. That's a great point about the resolution.  

Yeah.   It's effectively sizing your heating system.  

[01:04:45] Unknown:

Say that again? It's effectively sizing your heating system for your house. Yeah. Yeah. Like, with the number one, you can you know, your your increments are as small as a 100 watts.   Right. That's awesome.  

[01:04:57] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm really excited about that,   which is cool. And it's up to ten ten,  

[01:05:02] Unknown:

ever ones per Lieber board? Is that or is that eight? Four. Four. Gotcha. Yeah. Initially, I wanted it to be 10, but that was just, like, way too many.   It was just too much. So you have   one control board can,   handle four different hash boards.  

[01:05:20] Unknown:

Right.   But then these control boards can all talk back to   well, it's open source. Whatever you want to have some master fleet control,   system control, product control, whatever.  

[01:05:31] Unknown:

Yeah. Or you don't even have to use,   the Libre board. Like, you could you could technically   handle the data communications from your laptop   to the m one   or whatever you want. So, you know, it communicates over USB c. You still need to have your power,   your your DC power supply   for the miner. But   Right. Yeah. You can do the data from your laptop.  

[01:05:58] Unknown:

That is very interesting.   Because something I was,   I was actually talking to Schnitzel two weeks ago about this and doing the other day is,   like, this thermostat we just slapped to the wall over here. It has local API control. It automatically has   a features built in for a second stage heater. So if you had, like, a a heat pump in combination with your gas furnace and it's like   LibriBoard   talking to a thermostat that is already intended to know about some second system, Like, how how simple and cool would that be to say, hey. This Bitcoin miner is my my secondary system. It's the backup to this house or vice versa. It's the primary. And then you don't have to do much. Like, it's already there and designed. Yep.  

[01:06:39] Unknown:

That'd be cool. Yeah. I think it's gonna open up a lot of opportunities.  

[01:06:46] Unknown:

Can't wait.   So   people might be able to see all this at NEMS. Yeah?   Yeah. Is that still the target?  

[01:06:56] Unknown:

I'm, you know, I'm I'm testing hydro pool now, soon to be public.   I'm, you know, I've got an Ember one on the machine. I've got a Lieber board on deck.   So, yeah, we're doing everything we can. There's,   just a little bit over a month. So January   Wednesday, January 21,   we're gonna hold the telehash event, which is the two fifty six Foundation's annual fundraiser   where we try to get as much hash rate pointed to our   solo mining instance as possible.   And   we'll see if we mine a block or not.   If we do, then we fund the projects, and we can we can keep building.   If we don't, then, you know, we'll figure something else out.  

The following two days is the Nashville Energy And Mining Summit,   here at Bitcoin Park.   So that'll be going on   as well where you'll hear   a number of industry participants speaking on a range of Bitcoin mining specific issues.  

[01:08:04] Unknown:

Mhmm.   Right.   Well, the telehash will be exciting.   What are what are we right now? We're   one for three, one for two. This will be the third telhash? Yeah. This is gonna be the third telhash.  

[01:08:18] Unknown:

So we   we were successful the first time we did it.   The second time we did it, we did not hit a block.   But that was in Austin on Cinco de Mayo. So Right. Maybe we've just gotta be here in Nashville. Maybe Austin's That's true. Not a lucky town.  

[01:08:37] Unknown:

So the first time, the first telehash, telehash is zero zero one,   a solo block was mined. Yeah. On a live stream.   I remember being in the room.   No one believed you.   And you were, like, staring at that video is is so legendary to go when you're  

[01:08:56] Unknown:

like, what? That video. Yeah.   Dude, it was it was a pretty magical moment.  

[01:09:02] Unknown:

Yeah.   That was awesome.   Shout out to the Megawatt team again. They're machine founder. Thanks, Megawatt. They made it happen. They mined They're the lucky hashers. You gotta have them on board. Yeah. I hope they come back for,  

[01:09:16] Unknown:

telehash number three. Yeah. So we'll see.  

[01:09:20] Unknown:

That's sweet.   Alright. Is there anything else you wanna talk about this week?  

[01:09:28] Unknown:

Trying to think.   No. I don't think so. I've been pretty wrapped up in the in, you know, the samurai wallet petition and trying to get that get the word out about that.  

[01:09:41] Unknown:

Which, if you haven't yet, go on x. Go to the two five six foundations   account or Ecos account. You'll find everything you need.  

[01:09:50] Unknown:

Yeah. Change.org/billandchione.   Go sign the petition.   Let's get those guys a pardon.   Mhmm. It's pretty basic. I think everyone can agree that software developers should not be sent to prison for the actions of the end users,   and that's that's really the core of what's happening here.  

[01:10:13] Unknown:

Yep. So   And a lot of people have come to conclusions. I myself included was one of these people that thought it was possible   that,   something more was at play here than just that, just what you just said, that you wrote some code and you got put in jail for it. Like, oh, it must they must have done something worse than that. Right? I think a lot of people still Yep. Have that framing. And if you do,   I encourage you to go watch the episode from last week, episode 96 of pod two fifty six, where,   Eco prompted a lot of these great questions and myself more the ignorant questions from Keoni, and he answered them well. And it's just terrible what's happened to him   and Bill. So,   go check that out if you haven't seen it.  



[01:10:53] Unknown:

Yeah. I see a lot of people saying like, well,   come on. You're you're being disingenuous,   Eco. They didn't just write code. They were running a service.   And it's like, dude,   they were doing a lot more than just running a service. They were they were hosting a node. They were hosting a coordinator. They were pouring in a lot of resources and publishing research articles.   They hosted the OXT   blockchain analysis platform.   They supported the tour project with a $50,000   grant. They were the executive   producers of the,   death athletic   documentary   on three d printed guns.  

You know, they ran a social media   profile. They had their Telegram channels.   They they they did a lot.   The only thing they're going to prison for is for their code. So   the fact that they were running a service, the fact that they were making fees, the fact that   all these other   things were going on that they did,   none of that has anything to do with why they're going to prison. They're going to prison   because they wrote code. That's the conspiracy.   The criminals   could use the code, and they knew that. They knew that criminals could use the code. Just like any   layperson could tell you that,   yeah, a criminal could use a car, A criminal could use a knife. A criminal could use a gun. A criminal could use   the road, like a cell phone. Like, you name it. Criminals   use all the same things   that law abiding people use.  

So   no shit criminals could use samurai wallet. It was out there in the open for anyone.   So that's that's what the conspiracy comes down to is that they knew criminals   could use the software.   And that's all it took. So Mhmm. You know, it doesn't matter that they're running a service or making fees or any of those other things. All that matters is that they knew criminals could use the software, and that was enough   to   get them on conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitting business.  

[01:13:11] Unknown:

Unacceptable.  

[01:13:12] Unknown:

Yep. So if you don't believe me, like, go listen to Keone from last week,   explain it in his own words.   You know, he he can talk he talks about it a lot better than I can. So,   and he just did,   spaces this morning at 10:00 with the Bitcoin veterans.   So, that was great because there was a lot of q and a from the audience.   So if you wanna go find the Bitcoin Veterans Twitter account,   and scroll down, it shouldn't be very far down.   It was just this morning at, 10:00 eastern   that he did that Spaces recording.   He went on the   Kim Iverson show. So that's on Rumble and YouTube.  



[01:13:57] Unknown:

That's a pretty big show. Spaces  

[01:13:59] Unknown:

with,   Janice McCaffey,   John McCaffey's   wife, widowed wife.   That's that's out there on Twitter. Spaces recordings are only available for thirty days after the date that they're recorded. So I grabbed that one and put it up on the Bitcoin TV  

[01:14:19] Unknown:

server Oh, I didn't know that. To archive it. Yeah.  

[01:14:23] Unknown:

I'm gonna do the same thing with the Bitcoin veterans recording just to keep that archived.   And then he did, the Liberty Roundtable.   A couple of libertarians   had him on their podcast   to discuss the samurai wallet issue.   And I I think he's got a couple other media engagements scheduled,   for the near future. So   be watching out for those.  

[01:14:50] Unknown:

I'm glad he's doing that because he did, you know,   exactly what he was told to do, which is basically shut up for eighteen months and didn't say anything. Right? So I'm glad he's doing the rounds right now. Yeah. And, I forgot one, Watchmen privacy,  

[01:15:05] Unknown:

with Gabriel. He went on his podcast and recorded a great episode. So,   there's there's plenty of content out there. So,   if something isn't adding up to you or,   like,   or you think these guys deserved it or you have hesitations about signing the petition for, like, whatever reason,   go find any one of those resources and go hear the story straight from the source. And,   hopefully,   you understand   that   it's just a matter of time until someone else is next, like any of us. The like, the the the language   and the tactics used in this case   were so broad and the tactics were so dirty   that these   the these sorts of   prosecutions could literally apply to anyone   involved in the Bitcoin space, any node operator,   any lightning node operator, any miner, any wallet developer.  

I would even argue hardware wallet developers.   It's   just   it needs to be put into check. And it's,   it's a misapplication   of the law and getting them pardoned   would correct it. So that's what that's what we're focusing on doing is getting them pardoned. And you should sign that petition   to send a very clear message to Donald Trump that these guys should be pardoned ASAP.  

[01:16:34] Unknown:

And that's what's so conflicting and and scary in that sense too. It's because,   well, if you apply the framing that they got charged for and sentenced for,   then everyone running a node, anyone running a bid x   could be charged for the exact same reason. Yeah. Yep.  

[01:16:53] Unknown:

And it's contradictory because it insane. I I don't think people get it. I they're just like, no. There's no fucking way. Like, all I'm doing is, you know, running a node. All all I all I've done is is write the code for a non custodial wallet. Like, they just they don't fucking get what I'm saying.   But, like, go listen to Keoni explain exactly   in painstaking   and heartbreaking   detail   what happened,   and you'll understand   how grave the situation is.   You know, I I it just seems like a lot I mean, thank you. I'm not trying to minimize the support we've got. We've had over 3,000 signatures on the petition now. Thank you to everybody who signed.   Still though, it feels to me like a lot of people are asleep at the wheel on this.  



[01:17:42] Unknown:

Yeah. There's more than 3,000 people with bid access. So   they should go sign it. Yep.   The real money transmitters,   the miners.   Right?  

[01:17:54] Unknown:

I I thought Keone had a good point about that. I. I thought that was very interesting. You know, for anyone who didn't listen, you know, his his point was, like, if you wanna talk about money transmission, like, look at the Bitcoin miners. Like,   nothing is actually transmitted from one address to another until it's confirmed in the blockchain. And who's doing that? It's the miners.   And you wanna talk about fees,   who's taking the fees? The miners are taking the fees. So they're taking fees to select those transactions and put them in a block and include them in the Blockchain. So, you know, if anything's money transmission,   based on this insane legal theory that the prosecution has,   yeah, it sounds like the miners are the money transmitters to me.  



[01:18:39] Unknown:

How would they say that, but game theory this out. How would they put pressure on the miners? Would it be the pools? Would it be the the hardware manufacturers? Would it be   approved hardware manufacturers? Bitmain's okay.   Open source BitX is not okay. You know? No. What they'll do,  

[01:18:57] Unknown:

they'll just   they'll just arrest someone who's   operating a Bitcoin miner and make an example out of them. They're not gonna I don't think they'll go after the   the hardware manufacturers   or   well, I dude, I don't know. Maybe they will. Who know? Who knows what they'll do? But it just it seems to me like   yeah. I guess I guess if we were to apply, like,   similar   circumstance, like what happened to samurai law, they made the tool.   Someone else used the tool   to commit a crime.   And   the prosecution   the justice system did not go after the criminal. They went after the person who made the tool. So Exactly. Yeah. If we were to copy paste that over to Bitcoin mining,   yeah, it seems like the justice system would put a target on the backs of,   people manufacturing miners,   people writing code for miners,   you know, a nonprofit foundation that's   enabling   open source   Bitcoin mining   hardware,   firmware, and pools,   who, you know, who knows? Like Mhmm.  



[01:20:18] Unknown:

Yeah.   Insane.  

[01:20:22] Unknown:

Yeah. It's crazy to even suggest that, but   that is the reality of the situation.  

[01:20:30] Unknown:

Yeah.   Well,   should I read out some hashers?   Yeah.   If you wanna   perhaps get some good news here, some nice hash rate donations.  

[01:20:45] Unknown:

Alright.  

[01:20:47] Unknown:

On Linkcoin,   shout out to   Scott Offord from Open Hash Foundation and Scott Offord from Bitcoin Mining World   as well as Schnitzel,   Fish Tank Axe. Thank you for contributing hash rate.   Oh, there's one more, actually. Tubaloo. Shout out to Tubaloo as well. Oh, nice.   Then on solo c k, shout out to Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself.  

[01:21:10] Unknown:

Schnitzel wall axe. That's still active?  

[01:21:13] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. 1.2   terahash.  

[01:21:19] Unknown:

Interesting. Okay.  

[01:21:22] Unknown:

Wood miners bidaxe, rock paper bitcoin dot f m, boring worker name. You gotta work on that, buddy.   Ocean Pool is centralized and custodial. Hot take, eco, did you put that one up there? No. But that sounds exactly like something I would say. Yeah. It does.  

[01:21:40] Unknown:

Read that one one more time just to for the listeners in back.  

[01:21:44] Unknown:

Shout out to Ocean Pool is centralized and custodial.  

[01:21:48] Unknown:

It's true. They're not wrong.  

[01:21:51] Unknown:

I'm not commenting.   Shout out to BIP four four four invites government censorship.   What's BIP four four four?  

[01:22:00] Unknown:

Is that the one that That's the BIP that Blue Dash Junior put forward.  

[01:22:06] Unknown:

I don't pay attention to this shit.  

[01:22:09] Unknown:

Yeah. I haven't really been paying attention to anything coming out of that side of the camp, but I think,   basically,   BIP   four four four is the one that That's the child porn one?   Well, yeah. It to address that,   they wanna soft fork   Bitcoin.  

[01:22:30] Unknown:

This is,   these are some good worker names. People don't realize what they can fucking get me to say on camera. So Yeah. You got you have to read every single one even if it makes you really uncomfortable.   Yeah. You guys,   once they realize they have all the power, then I'm toast.   Usually, we make our guests read them, but we we've been low on guests recently. Yeah. We should get some more guests back on. Shout out to BitAct four zero one,   testing hydro pool do not change dash two 05.  

[01:23:00] Unknown:

No way. Those are not on there.  

[01:23:03] Unknown:

Who is that?  

[01:23:04] Unknown:

They are. Those are the ones that I'm, pointing at my hydro pool instance.  

[01:23:10] Unknown:

BitX 601, BitX 205, and Mujina?   Are those all you?  

[01:23:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Any of them that have, like, the the bid so there's the bidax 2 o I've got a bidax 205, a 401,   and a 601.  

[01:23:25] Unknown:

I see them all on solo c k.   But the solo c k is just an HTML,   like,   array when you click on the web page. It's not a live web page is my point.  

[01:23:41] Unknown:

It should have up to date stats though. No?  

[01:23:46] Unknown:

Let me   does it say when it last pulled the record?  

[01:23:51] Unknown:

It'll have, like it should have, like, a hash rate for, like, five minutes,   ten minutes, an hour, a day, a week.   Oh, yeah. I'm a dumbass. All of yours have zero hash rate. Okay. Good. Yeah. They just haven't, moved off. That's the hash rate that I'm seeing on my hydro pool instance now. And the reason I had to give them those goofy names, testing hydro pool do not take Yeah.   Is because here at Bitcoin Park,   there's a bunch of bit access throughout the campus.   And   the park members who come and go play King of the Hill with the Bitaxes. And so if you find a Bitax laying around, you can just connect to it with your mobile phone and then switch it to your own Bitcoin address.   And then you're   gonna get the block when   when the Bittacks finds the block.  

So in order to, like,   you know, because,   like, I've got, like, an IP sniffer. So, like, I can just, like, I don't have to walk around the park. I can just, like, look at what's on the network from the comfort of my laptop Right. To do this. And so, like, other people can do that too. And so they can see my bid access here on the local network.   And,   in order to, like,   try to convince them not to move my bid access and mess up my hydro pool testing, I made the worker name, you know, very clear that I'm I'm testing hydro pool. Don't take this bid access from me, please. This is, we started the episode with me saying we have two Wi Fi networks here. This is exactly why. Yeah. Totally.  

[01:25:25] Unknown:

For all the minors. Yeah.  

[01:25:28] Unknown:

One note on that though. The   the NerdQX   plus plus, I noticed in the settings,   had   a a one time password feature.   So now I've got it linked up with my with the,   the,   OTP manager on my cell phone.   So, like, if I wanna, like, edit the configuration file, I need to first pass it that one time password.   Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. I really like that feature, especially in, like, hostile  

[01:26:00] Unknown:

environments like I'm in here at Bitcoin Park. How many hostile environments are there on Earth where people are, like, fighting over conquering bit access?   Probably not that many. Not enough. Yeah.  

[01:26:12] Unknown:

But I like I like that they're, you know, thinking ahead there. Yeah. That's true. That's true.  

[01:26:20] Unknown:

Alright. On public pool,   shout out to average bid acts   office.   Is that average Gary's bid acts in his office? Must be. Must be.   Shout out to hardestblocks.org.   Stuff. Yeah. What's the packaging now? Stratham v two. Right?  

[01:26:38] Unknown:

Well,   he   yeah. He did do something with Stratum v two. He shared a video with with us, privately, so I don't wanna Oh, okay. Docs what he's working on. But suffice it to say, he's working on some cool stuff. Yeah.   Legend. I'm I'm excited to see that come out in the public.  

[01:26:57] Unknown:

Shout out to hardestblocks.org   and Stalin's Bitaxe for contributing hash rate on public pool.   And then finally on   ocean, we let me refresh this.   Shout out to bible huddle,   reckless systems,   Geyser Fun Project, Satoshi starter. There you go. Nice plug.   Pizanti proof of print, bid act one,   serving servingbitcoin.com   two, refurbished nodes now serve Bitcoin,   Zarkasay hash,   serving bitcoin one, our start OS nodes once had a fiat job.   Western Mass Bitcoin meetup and BitX wanna be just an s 17 pro.   Great.   It's a good amount. Yeah. So are these all mining   these are all   solo mining or are various different pool instances doing different things? Like, on ocean here, I see lifetime earnings.  



[01:27:59] Unknown:

Yeah.   So So those should be what are the I haven't looked at it in a long time. The lifetime earnings on ocean  

[01:28:08] Unknown:

is,   223,000   sets.  

[01:28:13] Unknown:

Has there been any payouts?  

[01:28:16] Unknown:

Last payout. I'd have to No. They're all they're all unpaid.   Yeah. I don't So that It's like a 100,000 set minimum, I think, on ocean. Might be bigger.  

[01:28:26] Unknown:

Yeah. So those should just accumulate there until they include them in a block.  

[01:28:31] Unknown:

You could use a bolt 12 lightning address, though.  

[01:28:35] Unknown:

Yeah. I could, and   maybe I will. I think I think what I'd like to do is just, you know,   like I said earlier, encourage people to move over to our hydro pool instance once I open that up to the public. Mhmm.   And then I think,   yeah, I think maybe I'll, like, go back after I see that, you know, we're not getting any more hash rate   at, like, Ocean, for example, and then set up the Bolt 12 payout.  

[01:29:04] Unknown:

So the hydro pool will be our   our solo one? Yep. Gotcha.  

[01:29:10] Unknown:

Yep.   Yeah. So there will be no sats earned unless   we unless somebody hits a block. But the way I'm gonna have the hydro pool server set up is, like,   you know, you you could put in, like, any address or worker name that you want. But   the way I'm gonna configure   hydro pull on the back end is that in the event any miner finds a block,   the two fifty six foundation is gonna get 100% of that payout.  

[01:29:40] Unknown:

So And that just makes it really simple for them to set up?  

[01:29:43] Unknown:

Well, it's   typically, like, with the PPLNS   pool, like, you're in the event that the pool finds a block, you're gonna receive   rewards in proportion to your hash rate contribution.  

[01:29:59] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:30:01] Unknown:

So,   I'm gonna have this one set up a little bit differently   so that, you know, the the point is   to raise money for the two fifty six foundation.   So in the event that we do find a block on this instance of hydro pool,   the two fifty six foundation is gonna get a 100% of that block reward, which   should be fine for the people that are pointing us hash rate anyways because they're pointing that hash rate to accounts that we control.   So it's not like they were gonna get any sats out of the hash rate they were pointing to us anyways. They're pointing us hash rate to   support the podcast and support the mission of the two fifty six Foundation.  

So it'll be the same thing with the hydro pool.   But,   but that's the neat thing about hydro pool. Like, if you wanna, like, set one up and configure it however you want, you can do that. And we've even got an option in there. Like, if you want   to set up your own hydro pool instance,   you have the ability to put in a donation amount   if   you want to have some of your hash rate,   go back to   the two fifty six foundation.   So, like,   let's say you set that at, like, 2%   in the event that your instance of hydro pull finds a block,   2%   of the shares will be attributed to the two fifty six foundation.  

That by default is set to zero.   So, you know, you'd have to go in and change it in order for that to   to take effect.   But, yeah, we we thought we would add that functionality for those who wanna give back.   Yeah. That's cool. You know, I'll just say,   once Magina is out,   you know, there's there's no dev fee in Magina. So that should be a refreshing change   for anyone who's been using aftermarket firmware solutions   from   other people.  

[01:31:59] Unknown:

And, Shout out to Magina, by the way. I saw Ryan left a comment. I I had to refresh my Oh, yeah. My dashboard, but I do see Magina bid x gamma now on public pool. Mhmm. Do you wanna talk about that, like, Wiki page you got there? Because I I didn't really realize that you had that, like, forum.  

[01:32:17] Unknown:

Which one? The one that Ryan commented on about the cooling blocks.   Is that the one you're talking about? Oh, heapunks.org?   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  

[01:32:27] Unknown:

Yes.   Sure.  

[01:32:31] Unknown:

Because I wasn't really I I thought you just had the Telegram group. I didn't realize you had this, like, whole other, like, forum set up. Oh, you took a look at it? Yeah.   Well, Ryan mentioned that he dropped a comment in there. So  

[01:32:42] Unknown:

Speaking of Ryan,   yes, Ryan,   left a message on heatpunks.org,   which is   a discourse forum, not discord.   It's free and open source. We're running it on our in a LXC container on our Proxmox server.   And it it's very much a forum platform. You know? There's topics, categories.   You can mark things as answered if you're a moderator.   You can upvote things,   make an account link.   Has a really, really, really good search functionality, which is the main reason I wanted it. And so he left a comment in our category,   hydronics, radiant, and water heating.   So high level here, like,   this forum was more so it's Bitcoin miners, but it's like us trying to penetrate the heating industry. So a lot of our categories are are organized by,   I'm trying to fuck around with HVAC, or I'm trying to mess with plumbing, or how do I solve control? And there's obviously ones for   the more ASIC in the weed stuffs, and that's where it kind of blends into what I'd say is, like, the OSMU community. Right?  

So that's probably where you transition into that group, which does have a discord that I understand.   Mhmm. But Ryan left a comment asking about building   cooling solutions   for the ember ones so that we could start to   hack around with some cool applications for a potential demo at NEMS or the Heat Punk Summit,   heating up water, things like that, and it's a perfect place. So there's already some engagement. My friend Cody and a few other people  

[01:34:12] Unknown:

have been, engaging with him. Yeah. We could demo, like, making sous vide steak.  

[01:34:18] Unknown:

Exactly.   Wait. What did you just say? Isn't it sous vide? I thought it was pronounced sous vide.   I've never heard that.  

[01:34:27] Unknown:

Like, if you look at the way it's written, isn't it v I d e?  

[01:34:31] Unknown:

Yeah. But is it  

[01:34:33] Unknown:

You like,   Tyler's right. Dylan's not right.   Alright. Look. French is not my strong sues, guys. Souz vide.  

[01:34:41] Unknown:

I'm gonna say that now.   Look. I'm gonna say very loud. Clapped for saying feta cheese, not feta.  

[01:34:48] Unknown:

That's right. That's right.   I pronounce very hard r's and,   okay. Well, that did not sound right.   Clip that. I didn't mean it that way.   But, yeah, I pronounce every every syllable.  

[01:35:04] Unknown:

What a Dylan and Ryan know. Maybe Iko is right.   But, yeah, that's, heatpunks.org.   So if you are curious or if you're, like, a pleb miner that's hacking around with making your   your industrial ASIC quieter or anything like that or curious how to control it automatically or link it to a thermostat then. No. I  

[01:35:25] Unknown:

I am   from   that   it's not Buena Vista. It's Buena Vista. I know that much.  

[01:35:33] Unknown:

Don't the locals call it Buena Vista? They call it,  

[01:35:38] Unknown:

Buena.  

[01:35:40] Unknown:

Yeah. Like beauty. Buena Vista.  

[01:35:43] Unknown:

Yeah.   Which is   odd because they they didn't do that years and years and years ago,   because, you know, I've been going up to Buena Vista for, like, as long as I can remember.   And   it was always Buena Vista.   It was never Buena Vista.   And,   it was only, like, in the last few years that I started hearing people pronounce it Buena Vista. And I'm like, what are you it's like when they say, like, oh, I'm from Arvada.  

[01:36:12] Unknown:

Excuse me? Arvada. What are these the these   the the hipster, like, COVID time transplants that came to Colorado?  

[01:36:19] Unknown:

Yeah. Well And changed the name? Of it,   happened after 2012 when they legalized marijuana. Ah.   But it's like yeah. Like like, people are like, oh, I'm from Arvada.   Wow.   It's Arvada,   and it's   Buena Vista.  

[01:36:40] Unknown:

For sure. I'm  

[01:36:42] Unknown:

a. Sorry. Just  

[01:36:46] Unknown:

We asked some locals when we were up there. We were up there, Dylan and I, the other week,   at the slammer. Did you ever go there?   Maybe. Was that bar there? It's like the the eighteen hundreds jail on Main Street. Yeah. I think so.   They accept Bitcoin.   Oh, cool. Yeah. Bitcoiner owns it. So   and it a Bitcoiner   and a guy that heats his house with hash rate, so he's a hard o.  

[01:37:14] Unknown:

Oh, yeah.   He's from Buena Vista?  

[01:37:18] Unknown:

I don't I don't think he's from there. I think he's there. I mean, that's where he heads now.   Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful area. I love I love that place. Yeah. It was my first time. It's so cool. Yeah. I was jealous of his truck, Eco. He had this sweet JDM swapped Hilux.  

[01:37:35] Unknown:

Oh, sick. Hilux,  

[01:37:37] Unknown:

powertrain into a Tacoma   turbo diesel. It was sweet. Cool.  

[01:37:43] Unknown:

Yeah. So it's still left hand drive?  

[01:37:46] Unknown:

Yes.   Yeah. He just brought the engine and the transmission over. Great.  

[01:37:51] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:37:52] Unknown:

Alright. We're rambling now. Yeah. Alright. Well,  

[01:37:58] Unknown:

I guess that's it for today. So I'm gonna finish it there, and we'll see you all next time. Catch you.