27 May 2026
115. From Bitaxe to Exahash: Inside HydroPool’s Record Stress Test and What’s Next - E115
In this episode, we debrief Telehash #4 and dig into the open-source future of Bitcoin mining. We share behind-the-scenes metrics from HydraPool’s six-and-a-half–hour live stress test, including 30.8 zettahashes processed, an average of 1.32 EH/s, a peak of 2.495 EH/s, 2,231 workers, 59 unique users, and an impressively low ~1% server CPU under >2,000 connections. We explain why rejection rates under ~2% matter, how stale and “difficulty too low” shares differ in solo vs pooled mining, and how Stratum “suggest difficulty,” plus our d= and h= password parameters, help right-size starting difficulty—making Telehash inclusive for both exahash renters and single-chip Bitaxe miners. We also touch on leaderboards, loyalty uptime rules, and shout out supporters like Elektron Energy, Compass, Saaz Mining, and Abundant Minds. From hardware to policy, we discuss Bitaxe UX updates (LVGL, Figma-driven UI, external display/knob), DOOMAXE fun, and industry standardization—from firmware and pools to racks, cooling, and power—arguing that open reference designs cut costs and risk for everyone. We cover GridPool’s “winners list” approach to decentralized variance smoothing, the Patoshi/extra nonce story, vardiff dynamics, and privacy-conscious VPN mining. We reflect on immersion’s decline versus hydro, ASIC roadmap realities and slowing efficiency gains, the supply-chain and security stakes (FCC Wi‑Fi moves, vendor backdoors), and why nonprofit coordination via the 256 Foundation matters for open firmware, dev kits, and reference designs. We close with community invites, next steps for Telehash #5, and a call for ASIC makers and big miners to collaborate on open standards that benefit small and large operators alike.
Yo. What's up, guys? What's up? Crushing it. How are guys doing? Great. Pod two fifty six number one one five, May 27. What have you guys been up to lately? Mining Bitcoin. Making Bitcoin miners. Awesome. That sounds more fun than mining, actually. I are you wearing safety glasses, Tyler? No, I'm wearing blue light blockers because I'm a sensitive young man. Okay. Alright. That's good. I read this interesting story
[00:00:24] Unknown:
about how during the pandemic, universities made the students install these these trackers on their computer. Right? Because the the students are taking exams and stuff at home, and so they wanted to turn on the cameras on the students' computers. Right? So they could make sure that they weren't, like, cheating somehow. It was determined that, like, there was these sort of special blue light blocker glasses that also made it so that you couldn't see their eyes. I should have had one of those. I remember having to take an exam in grad school during COVID. Really? Did they like turn on your camera and like stare at your eyeballs? Yeah. It's, you know, now that I'm more well versed in privacy, it's pretty invasive to install some Chrome extension and monitor you while you take an
[00:01:06] Unknown:
online test. Yeah. That's ridiculous. It would never
[00:01:10] Unknown:
it yeah. No. Never. It It reminds me of when people were doing their Zoom meetings and virtue signaling by wearing masks from their home while on the Yeah. Zoom call. Like a full face mask. You're like, I just gotta wear this. You know? Just for the call. Just for the call. Just for It was an interesting time. Yeah. Very crazy times. Total insanity looking back. But glad glad it's behind us. Hopefully forever. I I suspect they'll try their tricks again, and there'll be more pandemics in the future. Perhaps. Yeah. We have the the glorious
[00:01:44] Unknown:
AI future now. Right? So we'll have some tools in our arsenal at least to fight back on, universities that wanna look at your eyeballs while you're taking a test.
[00:01:54] Unknown:
That's right. We have the cyber pandemic to look forward to. Oh, the cyber pandemic. What's that? I it was something they were talking about during the 2019, 2020, 2021, and partly twenty twenty two pandemic. I don't know. Some, like, thing that they dreamed up at the World Economic Forum to get people to, I don't know, to, like, start taking away people's rights to do things online in order to, like, corral them into certain privacy invasive protocols and regimes that they want to Yeah. The EU is now trying to implement that with age verification, mask as stuff like that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think age verification is a big part of it. Were you guys mining
[00:02:39] Unknown:
Bitcoin during that crazy time when you were stuck at home? Well, I started in 2021.
[00:02:45] Unknown:
So yeah, yeah, I was. Yeah. I was, I was working on, I don't think it was called the Bid Axe yet, but I was working on what would become the Bid Axe screwing around. I had a luckily, the office where I worked was very close to my house, so everyone else wasn't coming in the office. So I could just go there and be by myself. And, yeah, did a lot of knot work and a lot of poking at Bitmain ASIC. Hell, yeah. That was my first introduction to FPGAs
[00:03:13] Unknown:
just because my my grad school roommate at the time, Nathan, huge shout out. He's not a Bitcoiner, but he was building an FPGA, Scott, does this sound right? For motor control. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For high speed bearingless motors. I remember him ordering circuit boards on PCB Way and hacking around. I was like mind blown at the time, but I attribute that to a lot of my understanding as I started to learn more about Bitcoin mining, which was cool. People had these fun COVID projects. You know? Yeah. I guess that there was that. That was an upside as we had some time to kill so we could work on these projects. But, yeah, FPGA motor control is is next level. Like, you can do some really crazy stuff, like servos and and steppers or, like, huge multi phase, I guess, motors. Yeah. He's a whiz. He's a whiz. I gave him a bid ask as a wedding present, so I hope he appreciates that. Yes. Sounds like someone who could dig in. Yeah. That's a great wedding present. Especially for a nerd. Yeah. I don't think his wife appreciated it, but it was for him. Right. She'll learn to appreciate it. Or or,
[00:04:10] Unknown:
you know, this this is a this is a challenge. Right? Like, why doesn't your wife appreciate this? Is it too loud, too hot, too unsightly?
[00:04:18] Unknown:
This this seems like a mandate to fix it. Speaking of unsightly, did you see I saw some images floating around on Bitcoin Twitter this week. Someone made a cool desktop case for a Bidax that had some sexy industrial design with a little knob on it. It was white. Cool screen. Did you see that? Yeah. That's, Yishi. She's an industrial designer.
[00:04:38] Unknown:
And she's been she's been talking about this for a while and, she sent me some early sketches and it's like, this is amazing. This is exactly what we need is someone with an eye for this stuff to just sit down and do it. Her and I have been talking about, you know, because the the next bid axes are gonna have a slightly different form factor. So what's something that we can do to make it more, you know, more streamlined for a good looking case like that. Awesome. She's got this sort of knob on there and a different style display. So I've been working on having the Bitaxe have essentially like a separate display board such that it can accommodate that different display and the knob. What does the knob do? Like, so you can interact with the display. Oh, yeah. Right. Right now, we have a button on the Bitaxe. It's the it says boot on it. It's used for something else. But when the Bitaxe is running, you can press the boot button and it, like, changes what's on the display. It's it was kind of an afterthought because it's like we have this extra button. But the thought is that if there's a purpose built UI, like, knob, then you could sort of change what's on the display, scroll through different things, and it and the knob will also, like, push, you know, so you can sort of, like, have a menu or something like that. I kind of struggle with these screen UI elements, but we can get the hardware in there so that someone with, with more skills in that regard can make it happen. Yeah. And AI doesn't struggle with UI elements. Yeah. I, I got a was it Figma?
I signed up for Figma and, like, it's got just it's, like, AI native, I guess. And so I was kinda banging on that. It was struggling a little bit, but that might've been a a skill issue on my part. Figma's for what? Like concept on what you want the UX to looks like look like before you go build the code? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I gather. I think a lot of, like, website designers and stuff do, you know, basically any sort of user interface designers will use Figma. I don't know how it worked before, but now it's like basically just like this workspace and a a, an AI prompt, you can kinda say do this and that. I, you know, I told that, like, the screen is like two fifty six pixels wide and like I only have one color and like, let's see what we can do. But it there's this, the user interface library that we use on the BitX is called that's what is it called? You got it. Yeah. It's that one. There's a user interface library that's like a standard for embedded projects with little screens. And they make a user interface builder that interfaces directly with Figma. So you can just sort of, like, design it in Figma, drop it into this UI library, and then it'll generate the embedded code that you can put on the microcontroller and control like a, you know, a little LCD or OLED. That's gonna be rad. I can't wait to get my hands on one. Can you play Doom on the new design? You probably could. You probably could. We'll have to hand it over to Schnitzel, but yeah. I mean, you got like a little knob. You could like turn right, left, shoot, shoot, shoot.
[00:07:36] Unknown:
I think Awesome. I think it could happen. Yeah. Maybe the DOOMACS is coming to production. DOOMACS. It's so cool. So we haven't done a pod since Telehash four. Is that right? Yeah. You guys were a little busy last week. Just a little bit. Just had a quarter percent of the network hash rate running on HydroPool. That's crazy. It's almost three times the most hash rate we've had at a previous telehash.
[00:07:59] Unknown:
Sorry, real quick. It's LVGL. That's the display library for those taking notes. I knew you were gonna get it. I just Google it. Sorry.
[00:08:08] Unknown:
But yeah, 2.5
[00:08:09] Unknown:
X a hash. It's amazing. New record. Yeah. Wanna say at Thames, the Texas Energy Mining Summit, Tel Hash number two, the year prior down in Austin in 2025,
[00:08:18] Unknown:
we were floating around 400 pet a hash. Yeah. It was something like that. Think, because I if I recall correctly, I think that was the one where public pool was running like a tandem event on their pool, but to our Bitcoin address. Mhmm. And I if I recall, they basically matched all the petahash that we were getting pointed to Hydro Pool. And it was an early version of HydroPool that we were doing some live troubleshooting. I mean, that's a testament. It was a big takeaway from this year's as well. These
[00:08:46] Unknown:
live stress tests are actually super valuable for our team, our developers. Absolutely. And then a cool part was now that HydroPool is more polished and extensively documented, and we had the infrastructure in the backend to our Promethean database and Grafana and all that built out, and the advent of these AI tools that can help you parse data very well. Schnitzel helped me summarize the the key metrics from the six and a half hours that we were actually live, and it's cool to actually have that. There were 3.08 e to the 22 hashes. So around 30.8 Zetta hashes, not hash rate.
That's crazy. With an average hash rate of 1.32 exahash per second over the six and a half hours, a peak hash rate of 2.495 exahash per second. 2,231
[00:09:34] Unknown:
unique workers, 59 unique users. That worker count is an interesting metric too. Right? Because that's what really stresses the
[00:09:42] Unknown:
the pools with all those you know, it has to allocate resources and create a connection for each worker Mhmm. And send it work and all that. Yeah. Around 2,000 of those were Electron. Huge shout out to Electron Energy. They supported a full exahash for the full duration of the event. Massive. Absolutely massive. We were fortunate enough to get to chat with some of those guys, Hoffa and Mike, throughout the event and then subsequently at the Texas Energy and Mining Summit. I'm looking at some other metrics here. An average rejection rate of 0.19%.
[00:10:10] Unknown:
Is that pretty good? Yeah. That's good. I think anything under 0.2% is decent.
[00:10:15] Unknown:
Best share, 5,600,000,000,000
[00:10:18] Unknown:
from electron energy. Or is it any rejection under 2% is decent? That's what I was going say. I think it's under like 2%.
[00:10:25] Unknown:
This was like one tenth of that. Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. Why is 2%, the rule of thumb, good? You know, that's a good question. I guess I got that number from some documentation I was reading on the formerly Slushpool, later became Brainspool when I was working on my VPN guide because I was trying to, well, I was mining through a VPN tunnel because I did not want the mining pool to see my IP address because I don't know what they're gonna do with their logs. And I didn't want my ISP seeing that I was going to a mining pool or which mining pool I was going to. So a VPN mining through VPN tunnel was one way to solve that. However, there's a potential to introduce latency and you need to be careful with that because the more latency you introduce in your mining traffic means the less Bitcoin you're gonna earn. Mhmm. You know, especially if you're doing like PPLNS or FPPS.
So the one workaround I came up with was if I use WireGuard tunnels and MOLVAD with one subscription, MOLVAD will give you five key pairs. So you can actually make five different VPN tunnels. And using a sense router, I was able to set it up so that whichever tunnel was experiencing the least amount of latency, the traffic would get sent through that tunnel, and it would just constantly switch between the five tunnels. And so I was doing some AB testing to see if my VPN enabled traffic was getting more or less latency than my traffic without any VPN at all. And that's like, you know, I was looking for like a good baseline and I came across this 2% number. And basically, I don't remember exactly what the documentation said, but the gist of it was like, you know, if you're getting less than 2% rejection rate, then you're doing okay. And so that was kind of my threshold. And I actually found out that I was getting less latency through the VPN tunnels than I was without using a VPN tunnel at all. So more Bitcoin and less rejected shares and the enhanced privacy against both my Internet service provider and
[00:12:31] Unknown:
the pool operator. There's also, like, there's different types of well, there there's different reasons why a share might be rejected too. So especially when you're solo mining, like what we're doing in the telehash, there's certain types of rejected shares, like a stale share that are bad because you could, you could potentially solve a block. If that is stale, then you haven't solved the block. What makes it stale? So the pool sends you work. And if you send back a share with use that use that work too late, maybe because a new block has been found in the meantime, that share is is no longer valid. Like the pool can't use it. You're working on on old work.
So you you know, the the pool has sent you a new block height. And if you're mining on the old block height, that just wouldn't be a valid share to submit to the network. So the the pool can't use it. But those are the bad ones. When you're solo mining, you could also have rejected shares because the difficulty is too low, but that that doesn't matter when you're solo mining. If you're pooled mining, then, yeah, that does matter because you won't get credited for that work. In the solo mining situation, the pool just throws away all of the, all the shares that don't meet the network difficulty. So it's not like you're getting you're you're losing out on on revenue from the pool when you're when you're solo mining and you have a difficulty too low share. Reasons why you might get a difficulty too low share are that the pool adjusted its minimum difficulty. So pools have this thing called Vardiff, where they're constantly adjusting the the the difficulty threshold for shares and to try and keep, you know, your share submission rate at a steady interval. And so it might change. And if it has changed, but your miner sends back some work that it was working on thinking that it met that that previous difficulty, but it doesn't anymore because the difficulty has changed, then you might get a rejected share. But,
[00:14:27] Unknown:
yeah, in solo mining, that doesn't matter because if you found a block, it wouldn't matter. The difficulty would not be too low. This highlights my ignorance, so I'm gonna double click on it. Okay. So your miner is trying a bunch of different nonsense, puts it through the SHA two fifty six hashing algorithm. It outputs a number, a difficulty. Right? What's the output? The minor outputs minor. The minor outputs are nonce.
[00:14:47] Unknown:
A nonce. That makes a hash. Right? So sending the whole hash back is it's a big number. It's two fifty six bits. And you don't really need that. So what the miner sends back, the actual chip
[00:15:02] Unknown:
sends to the miner is a nonce. It says, hey, I tried this nonce. Yeah. And I got a hash that meets the threshold. And the pools have a minimum difficulty to prevent being overwhelmed?
[00:15:13] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So the miner has a network connection with the pool. And you know, the pool says, hey, I want you to tell me when you found a share above this difficulty so that it gets like a steady cadence of
[00:15:27] Unknown:
of packets from the miner. What is a share then? Is a share just a nonce? It's it's a nonce. And,
[00:15:34] Unknown:
I mean, that's the important part is the nonce, but it's also some identifying information about, like, what work, like an ID number that associated with what work. Yeah. Was was using the extra nonce, that type of thing is in there. Everything that the pool needs to, like, take the specific nonce that you found and combine it back into a block header to verify that it is a it's a valid hash. And is it through the shares and how they report these shares that some people have said you can kind of fingerprint what kind of miner or firmware it is that's doing that? Yeah. Yeah. That that's that's still pretty handwavy at this point. I've always thought that that would be neat to do. I think that there could be some patterns in the extra nonce that the miner sends to the pool that might indicate what its hash rate is. There's you know, so the the work that comes from the pool to the miner includes, like, an ID number to sort of, like, make sure that they can all be correlated when they come back to the pool. And the miner needs to send that ID number back to the pool with any share. So the pool can definitely track, you know, who it who what the miner is. When the miner first connects, it optionally sends information about itself, like what version of the firmware it's running, what hardware it's running on, and things like that. So the pool definitely has all the information about who's connected. But the exciting thing here would be if you don't have access to the pool's data to try and back out what miners were doing it from, like, on on chain data. Sounds like some fun stuff we could test with open source firmware and a pool instance. Yeah. Yeah. This is how they how they identified
[00:17:02] Unknown:
the Potoshi pattern. Right? Through the extra nonce. That's a good question. I don't know. Was it? I think so. I'm looking at it now. It says the Patoshi pattern is ultimately a story about the little known extra nonce. As a quick reminder, Bitcoin miners validate transactions by finding a nonce, which is a number that combines with those transactions to produce a sufficiently small hash value. Turns out that such a nonce might not exist. When this occurs, a secondary value called the extra nonce is incremented, and the miner restarts their search. So ten years ago, researchers discovered a surprising pattern in the distribution of extranons values.
The pattern is a result of several privacy flaws in the original Bitcoin client, and it can be used to infer the identities of early miners. And then, they go on to show this plot where, you can see these, like, extra nonce values that are being tested and or incremented in found blocks, and they they all, like, stack up in these clean lines with each other, which is a good indicator that they came from the same,
[00:18:06] Unknown:
entity, I suppose. That's interesting. I wonder if you said the flaw was in in the Bitcoin client. I guess they were using the Bitcoin client for mining on the CPU. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So this is, like, very, very, very early. I'm gonna drop this link in the signal chat. Nice. That's really neat. Yeah. So the the the good news back then is that, you know, CPUs were really slow at hashing, so extra nonce wouldn't have been incremented very much. Right? If it takes a long time to go through the whole nonce space, you don't need to increase extra nonce very often. So then, yeah, you could definitely see patterns like that. Yeah. We had a similar bug in the Bitaxe firmware for a little bit. It didn't affect mining or anything, but including we were sort of, like, parsing the block header, the Extronons portion of the block header wrong, and we included some arbitrary data in the Extronons. Extronons is huge. It's it's, like, several bytes. Like, it's pool dependent, but it can be, like, eight bytes. So there's tons of space. You wouldn't you'd rarely need to use the whole externons field even on modern miners. But, yeah, we were including like this extra little bit of data in the in the externons, which could theoretically used If you if you knew this and you went back and you looked at all the blocks that bit axes have solved, you could probably, call them out.
There's, like, all, what, four of them? Yeah. And the the we fixed this a while back, So there was probably one or two that had this bug in the in the mining firmware on the Bitaxe. Yeah. Was a Crazy. Interesting little tidbit. It's it's been fixed for a while now, but it is it is interesting that the pools tell you, they tell the miner how many bytes of extra nonce that the miner can use. And I think the default's like eight, but there are some pools that give you four bytes. So when you're parsing on chain data, you do need to know what the portion of the, essentially the Coinbase transaction is the extra nonce, and that is gonna be pool dependent. So you would need to look at what pool solve the block, figure out how many bytes they allocate to extra nonce, and then use that to figure out what the extra nonce was from that particular block header.
It's it's definitely a treasure hunt.
[00:20:09] Unknown:
Does the variable difficulty relate to small hash rate miners sometimes not showing up on a pool? Like on the pool stats? In the minimum difficulty.
[00:20:20] Unknown:
Walk me through why that's important. It actually came up quite a bit in preparation of telehash number four, like the starting difficulty and what's happening there for larger miners versus our small supporters with the bid acts on their desk. Well, so every pool has a starting difficulty. So that's the pool saying to the miner, like, I don't wanna get shares unless they sort of meet or exceed this difficulty. And it's a little bit confusing in the beginning because when a new miner connects to your pool, you don't know what its hash rate is. So you don't know what difficulty it should be at in order to get those shares at the rate that you want. So I think there's a lot of pools out there that do this poorly. And they have they have, like, different ports with different starting difficulties, or they just have the starting difficulty really high. The problem is okay. The problem with a with a low starting difficulty is that, like, some big miner or a a proxy with a bunch of miners behind it, like NiceHash or Wrigley or something like that, will connect and it'll just DDoS your pool server right away because it sees that low starting difficulty. The miners or all the miners behind the proxy are just gonna be like, yeah, no problem. Found it. Found it. Found it. Found it. Right? And it's just gonna overwhelm the network connection immediately. And that's bad. You don't wanna overwhelm overwhelm network connections on your pool. That's that's bad for everyone. A lot of pools will just, if you send shares too fast, they'll just disconnect you. But miners are pretty well configured to just reconnect as soon as they get get disconnected. So it can be a problem. So that's if you set it too low. If you set it too high, starting difficulty, then small miners like Bidaxes, they could take, you know, they could take hours, months, a year to to find a single share. And pools will also disconnect miners who don't send any shares back. So that can be like a that's a problem. That's kind of a fail to start. Right? I think Ocean has a pretty high starting difficulty.
[00:22:11] Unknown:
Doesn't every miner then need a custom difficulty?
[00:22:14] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every certainly, every hash rate different, you know, category of hash rate miners need a different starting difficulty. It's just the starting difficulty. Just the starting difficulty. Yeah. Because there's an algorithm on the pool that will adjust the difficulty as it notices the share rate. But you need to have a share in order And adjust the difficulty for that specific connection. Yeah. You wanna you're you're adjusting for a share rate. And if you don't have any shares, then it's very hard to difficult to determine the rate. And if you're getting DDoSed by a big miner, it's also just very difficult to do anything. Should there be some handshake before you get started, or is that too That is a fantastic question. This this problem was solved, like, very early on in stratum's history.
I don't think initially, but one of the Stratum extensions is this thing called suggest difficulty. It's genius. When the miner first connects, it says, Hey, this is the difficulty that I want to start at. It solves all the problems. Unfortunately, a lot of the firmware running stratum clients on different miners sucks and it doesn't send a suggest difficulty. Lot of proxy servers also don't send suggest difficulty cause they wouldn't know it. Like a proxy server doesn't necessarily know how many miners are behind it. So it can't really suggest a difficulty cause it could be. It's it's it's unknowable what's behind it and it also is like it could be changing as different miners come on and offline. So a lot of the, like, hash rate rental services don't send a suggest difficulty.
So there's a solution here. It's a kind of a hacky solution, but one that we implemented, I think, pretty well on HydroPool for the telehash. And this is a hack, but we have this sort of unused field in Stratum, which is the password field. So unlike a Stratum client, it'll always say password, but nobody uses that. It's not encrypted. It's not secure. The password is, I would say, never used as an actual password. This is when you're setting up your pool on your firmware.
[00:24:08] Unknown:
It says Yeah. Stratum username Yeah. PasswordX.
[00:24:11] Unknown:
Yeah. Looks like stratum URL, stratum username, and stratum password. And like 99.9% of pools say just put whatever for the password. Like, it doesn't matter. So this is like an unused field, but it is useful because the miner does send that data to the pool when it initially connects. So what some people have done is they put the starting difficulty in the password field, and that's called the d parameter. You put like d equals and then a starting difficulty. And that works pretty well. The pool, the Stratum server side has to be configured to look at the password field and say, okay. This is the starting difficulty we're gonna use. But that works really well. In discussions with Jungly and, well, the whole crew on our chat for two fifty six, were like, yeah. We we can we can add the, and Jungkook's like, yeah. I can add the the d parameter in the password field, and we can support that. That's great. When you're renting hash rate in most cases, not all, in a lot of cases, you have the ability to specify a password for the pool that you wanna connect the hash rate to, so you can just put that in there. We came up with a really cool addition to it. So you can use the d parameter if you want, but we also came up with the h parameter where you can instead of putting, you know, d equals and then you're starting difficulty, you can actually just put h equals and your starting your hash rate.
Because it's not easy to do the calculation. If you're like, I have an exahash, what should be my difficulty to get, you know, a a share submitted every second? Right. It depends on the total network hash rate. Well, it depends on The network difficulty? No. It doesn't depend on network difficulty. It just is a calculation to determine the odds of finding a share at that difficulty Mhmm. And how often it will happen. It's not a complicated formula, but it was something that a miner would have to do to come up with the starting difficulty for the d param. But the miner probably has a better sense of what their hash rate is. Of course.
If they're renting it, that's what they're paying for. And if they have the miner sitting at home, they can just look at it and see what it it should be. And so you can put that in the h parameter, and then the pool can be like, the pool, you know, which is software, can just do that calculation for you. The pool knows the rate at which it wants to receive shares. So it's it's trivial to put that in. I think it makes the miner's job a lot easier. It's like Should this be part of SV two? I feel like it should be. I don't know enough about SV two, to be honest, how they deal with this. Yeah. Mean and it makes sense to implement it this way because everybody already has miners with regular stratum client protocol in their firmware. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this this is a this is a, I think, a great stopgap. Right? I mean, this allows us to have a telehash and support most mining rentals. And, you know, so you could have you could have an exahash behind a proxy,
[00:27:03] Unknown:
and it would work. And you could have a Bidax, and it would work. And they'll it'll be seamless. Like, they'll all quickly hone in on the right share submission rate. You'll see your stats on the dashboard. Everything's cool. This is a way too. I know we talked about how we might split up the leaderboards between large miners and small miners. Right? Is this a way you could field and filter based on if someone put an h parameter I mean, obviously, you'd have to trust them. I guess that that share rate could verify it. But someone if put in an h parameter less than five terahash,
[00:27:35] Unknown:
then they get put on the small miner leaderboard. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's an interesting idea. I mean, yeah, it's just It's kind of arbitrary, but It's, you know, on the honor system, I guess. But it would be a good way to categorize minors. And of course, you still have to do that, that VARDIF, the sort of algorithm to adjust the difficulty because, know, I think I should be getting an exahash, but maybe I'm getting more, maybe I'm getting less. It kinda depends. But having a close starting point really helps the Vardiff algorithm.
But, yeah, to your point, like, would be cool to just sort of kind of minors for for the leaderboard. Someone could. That's super cool. I'm glad we were able to implement that d parameter for the telehash. Yeah. And I guess, you know, let's say you had someone who wanted to get on the small single chip miner leaderboard and they're like, they wanna crush it. So they got their, s 23, and they put in a fake d parameter or h parameter so that they can qualify for the what is it? The lightweights, the the featherweight category.
Vardiff would adjust them very quickly if they're sending sending shares too fast. So I think making these sort of classes on the leaderboard would have to be influenced by where, like, Vardif ends up. Yeah. Vardif could be your check and balance there. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a neat way to do it. Yeah. In terms of gamification,
[00:28:54] Unknown:
I like this idea of, like, a featherweight,
[00:28:57] Unknown:
lightweight, medium weight, heavyweight category. Tele hash number five. We got lots of ideas. Right, Jungly. You're on. I'm looking at some more of these stats here. It says that we had 157,937 total stream connections to the livestream. Like viewers? I I think. I I don't know what else this would be measuring. I'd have to ask Schnitzel because I know that there's some metrics here or maybe it's from the dashboard, the hash dash, because that was also there was some troubleshooting happening in the first thirty minutes with API rate limits on the hash--.256f.org
[00:29:31] Unknown:
that were resolved with some caching. But So now we've got we made HydroPool robust and now we made the website robust too. Yes.
[00:29:40] Unknown:
Yes. It was really neat. I mean, I wasn't doing anything, but I was watching Zhongli and Schnitzel chatting about this and they did a lot of work leading up to the Tel Hash to make sure that the the pool, the stratum server, could handle the mining. Obviously, that's the most important part. It's then it was became clear once the, telehash was getting started that the stratum server was working great. But the dashboard actually was getting overloaded from everyone looking at the stats and following along and checking out where things were going with the telehash, which was cool to see. Lots of people doing it. But I know Schnitzel whipped up this amazing proxy server for the dashboard right there in the beginning to and save the day. 452,062
[00:30:25] Unknown:
total API requests with a peak API rate of 33 requests per second Wow. To Dee's wonderful hashtash. It's like, That's great. We're loving it. Yeah, they were. But other than that, mean, Telehash was great. We walked through all the projects. I think the team's doing a great job communicating the value proposition and why this is important to Bitcoin mining, not just to the small home miners and the tinkerers, but to the larger guys. We had we were able to talk with Wayne from Megawatt and Kent from SAS Mining among others the the subsequent days after. And the picture's starting to be painted, I think, for the industry as a whole. I don't know if you'd agree with that's how I felt, Scott, from the conversations we were able to have with folks there. Yeah. I Yeah. Mean, there's just like a ton of interest. I feel like everyone that we got to talk to was was really fired up on what's going on here, and you could see some lights going on as to the the possibilities for
[00:31:16] Unknown:
everything from small to large mining operations. Do you have CPU
[00:31:20] Unknown:
load on there, on those stats? Because I I recall I spoke with Jungly earlier this weekend. I recall a very specific percentage that I think is worth highlighting. Yeah. Don't see it in the summary that Schnitzel provided to me, but I do recall that from the chat,
[00:31:36] Unknown:
how low the load was and how well the server was behaving. Yeah. He said it it was at 1% when we had like over 2,000 connections. Incredible. I know it was, you know, because this is hosted in the cloud and I know you can just like order more CPU more or less. And there was some discussions like, well, how much, you know, CPU we should order? And I think it was it was really over provisioned, and it was nice to see that it it came in so so light on CPU utilization.
[00:32:02] Unknown:
Lean and mean. Lean and mean. Yeah. Yeah. Super fun. If you're curious on the total metrics, you can go to forum.256foundation.org. There's a topic post, one of the recent three called telehash number four performance metrics that also ranked all 59 unique users by total share contributions and total hashes, which is cool. Yeah. And I think we should
[00:32:23] Unknown:
Rank is this is ranked based on
[00:32:27] Unknown:
highest share. I think it's actually don't know what it's sorted by. Looks like total hashes. We got NPUB. Is that
[00:32:34] Unknown:
that's gotta be, Electron's NPUB. Right? Yeah. That's cool. I'm really glad you guys put together these these Yeah. We should do it going forward so we can track progress across telehashes. Yeah. This is this is a really cool just testament to HydroPool and seeing how well it performed under load. You know, it's not every day that you get these just one day events where everyone's going all out, all pointed at one server. And the Hashdash obviously still running because Hydro Pool is still running. So -.256f.org.
[00:33:03] Unknown:
We've talked about it before, the difficulty leaderboard and more recently the loyalty leaderboard leading up to the telehash. I'll just reexplain how these work. So the difficulty leaderboard is obvious. It's the top 10 difficulty submitted to the pool. Eight of the 10 are electron right now, so they might be up there for quite a bit of time with highest difficulty of 5,640,000,000,000. But the loyalty leaderboard, just a reminder how this works, I had to have it explained to me twice. It's tracking total number of hashes. So Schnitzel's in first place with 3,002 exahash, so three zeta hashes. But if you drop connection for a week, then your stats will reset. So Schnitzel right now is just mining to the hash dash with his little fish tank axe with 600 GHz per second, but he's maintaining that total loyalty leaderboard from the hash rate he rented during the livestream because he hasn't disconnected for more than a week. Electron, Wrigley, among many others that were very high up in the loyalty leaderboard because they didn't leave one miner online supporting us.
They got booted. Which
[00:34:10] Unknown:
is a good incentive, I think, to keep Yeah, it got to keep one bit ax running or something just
[00:34:16] Unknown:
to maintain your spot. That's funny. Abundant Minds is new here. I I remember shooting those guys some messages before the telehash. I think it got lost in communications, they missed the livestream, but they came in strong to support us after the fact. I noticed the past three days, they had a 100 plus petahash pointed at hydro pool. So thank you. Shout out to Bo and the Abundant Minds team for that. That's really nice. Yeah.
[00:34:38] Unknown:
Think we're should we talk about the brains donation?
[00:34:41] Unknown:
Sure. Yes. Another another you know, we're flying by the seat of our pants here prepping for the telehash, a lot of moving parts, lot of really wicked smart engineers putting all this stuff together. Like we said, make sure everything works properly and sometimes some communication gets lost in the chain. Similar to abundant minds, timing wasn't perfectly aligned for Brains to participate in the livestream event itself, but shout out to the Brains team. They have been longtime supporters of the Telehashes and the NEMs and TEMs events at Bitcoin Park, and they sent us a thousand dollar donation that we will use to purchase Hashrate on Brains Hashpower, their Hashrate rental service. And we'll probably have to time that with a Pod two fifty six rip or maybe get one of the guys from Brains On or something so that we can showcase the stress test live, I think, on a pod and how simple it is to kind of point a lot of hash rate at the pool. Yeah, that would be good. And then we had Compass
[00:35:32] Unknown:
contribute what, like six petahash, if I recall. Yeah.
[00:35:36] Unknown:
That sounds right. They're still up on the loyalty leaderboard with 168 exahashes, SaaS mining, MW still on there. The showing was strong, most certainly. Especially shout out to a lot of the hosting companies that started to pay attention. And like I said, we got the chance to talk with Wayne from MW and Kent from SaaS. I emailed some conversations back and forth with the guys at Compass, and everybody's really supportive of what the team is working on. And I think it's a huge testament to everyone can kind of feel that the industry could use some some open source hardware and software. Everybody's got some pain points, some challenges that they want to overcome, and they recognize that an open building block stack to go and have them solve the challenges themselves or the community solve it for them is highly advantageous. Yeah, I think that, you know, there's some third party firmers out there that are really good at what they do, but it's
[00:36:28] Unknown:
it's kind of a one size fits all, and it it ignores a lot of other mining deployment strategies that people might have. Obviously, they cater to their biggest customers, But if we want more small customers or more small miners to be the big miners or just have a lot more small miners, I think we can do some good work on making firmware that meets their needs, makes them more efficient miners, more reliable miners. Another theme that was recurring at Thames and the Telehash was this
[00:36:57] Unknown:
this interest in more standardization, which I think comes from the Linux kernel of Bitcoin mining through Magina firmware, you know, that might come out of HydroPool two and open source well documented pool instances, how run those. But also in the hardware sense, shout out to Mike from Electron Energy. He was on a great panel talking about the pain points of operations, setting up large mines where a bushing's wrong or some conduits labeled incorrectly or rack space isn't fully tightened or the dry cooler's replaced a foot too close together and shit catches on fire or the cooling's not proper. And I mean, these are all painful learning experiences that should be documented and then released, knowledge, that inherent knowledge, like, Hey, don't do it this way. Because it's really the benefit of it's to the benefit of all. I know that Schnitzel talked extensively during the telehash about Meta's 50 page or so open source data center playbook effectively that said, we want our VFD fans like this. We want our pumps to be spec'd like this. We want our racks to look like this. We want our form factors to be like this. And that kind of maturity is destined for the mining industry. And I think that an open source standard, an open source organization like the two fifty six Foundation, our four core pillar projects really do play a significant role in that when the timing's right. Yeah. I think they can. I think the the foundation can be kind of a good hub for an effort like that. Right?
[00:38:23] Unknown:
Because you don't want, like, any one company trying to strong-arm the rest of the industry. So it just it makes more sense when it's an entity like a nonprofit. Yeah. Derisks it. Yeah. It's not seen as bending to your competitor.
[00:38:36] Unknown:
Right. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, the initial reaction might be like, well, you know, I'm a big miner and I spent all this, you know, time, money, trial and error to figure this stuff out. Like, why should I tell anyone else that? But I think that's a little bit it's a little bit shortsighted. Right? If if there are standards that emerge in all the things that go together to putting together a Bitcoin mine, one of the things that happens is this stuff gets cheaper. Right? Because now you can have manufacturers who wanna build this stuff, making equipment to meet those specs, but it's not just, you know, it's not just one. Right? The the manufacturers aren't siloed. Right? Because if they can they can all make it to meet these specs, now there's multiple different manufacturers in that field. They aren't all, like, special snowflakes.
And Mhmm. You can really, like, do price comparison against them. You can you can sort of compare apples to apples, and that's going to drive down the cost of your equipment for everyone. So, you know, it it expands the market of people making hardware for Bitcoin mining, all all the different types of hardware. They go into a farm, and, yeah, it's it's going to lower costs. It's gonna make them more reliable. Cheaper to operate. Cheaper to operate. Train technicians. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think even the big miners that are doing this R and D themselves
[00:39:50] Unknown:
are going to benefit from this. And nothing stopping you from saying, I don't wanna be a part of that. We're gonna stick to our proprietary stack. And then someone else will just others, a collective, will just lead to the standardization, the normalization, and you'll feel the pain later on with your proprietary stack up, I think. Right. You gotta have some really big competitive edge. If it's happened in the data center industry, like why would it not happen in the mining sector? Yeah.
[00:40:16] Unknown:
That's a really good point, right? Like the data center and now upcoming AI data center businesses is growing really fast,
[00:40:25] Unknown:
and they've made the decision to do this. It is actually one of the the funniest points to me because many of the talks at the Texas Energy and Mining Summit, as it makes sense, per the title, are about energy and deploying gigawatts and hundreds of megawatts. And a lot of these companies are switching to AIHPC or at least a portion of their operations. I was always kind of wondering like, hey. You guys that deployed 20 exahash on the Bitcoin network now shifting to AIH, was it not shocking to you how retarded Bitcoin mining is compared to this other stuff?
[00:40:57] Unknown:
Yeah. Right? They're like, oh,
[00:40:59] Unknown:
wait. This is how you do it. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe AIHPC is still not as mature as regular data centers. Right? Because the norm the norm for decades in data centers has not been GPU farms load intensive. Is that fair to say? It's just been data storage still load, but it's it's a different problem. Like, I imagine the AI HPC stuff is more normalized, more standardized, more well documented, more open in that sense, but maybe it's still going through some maturization as well. Yeah. That sounds right. You were telling me they have, like, these
[00:41:29] Unknown:
these racks, megawatt per rack. Insane. That's absolutely insane. I'm I'm gonna guess that's probably not the case in the classical data center, sense of it. But even more, important to have the standardization. Right? Because a megawatt in a rack is insane power density. We saw that display at the the Bitcoin conference. You know, they have to have redundancies for everything, for the cooling, for the temperature sensing, for the the power, the shutoffs, you know, a megawatt in that space. That is no joke. Yeah. So you need you need you need options in the suppliers for this equipment. Right? Because you can't have just one sort of special snowflake supplier that makes the part that you require on and they just don't make it anymore or they change it. That's that's gonna be a real big problem.
It could mean, it could really it could do derail your whole business. Right? If this part kinda goes out of stock or they're not making it anymore and you got a lot of money, a lot of capital investment on the line. Like, what are people with Auradine supposed to do right now? Yeah. Yeah. Right? Auradine just vaporized and but not not before selling a bunch of this hardware. Like, was gonna buy them and use them for
[00:42:42] Unknown:
a commercial heating project here just because they have better ramping capabilities, faster hash rate response, temperature response, well documented API. And now I'm like, dang. Probably gonna go with What's Minor's. Not because they're better, but because they exist. Yeah. Right. If you're investing a bunch of money in a whole, you know, the infrastructure to support a particular design,
[00:43:02] Unknown:
you need to be very well assured that that infrastructure is going to be useful for, you know, an extended period of time. You've got this this,
[00:43:13] Unknown:
you know, time, this this clock that's ticking in order to, get that return to get to pay off the equipment. We also heard through the grapevine Scott and I, you and I did on a chat that sounds like Bitmain and MicroBT have some handshake to never have the same form factor. Yeah. Did you catch that? That was so funny to me. That was so ridiculous.
[00:43:31] Unknown:
This is unverified, but it makes a lot of sense. Right? Because they they have dramatically different form factors. And so they have this behind the scenes agreement to never have the same form factor. Like, that, like, really means, like, you either go down the Bitmink road or the the Micro ET Road. Right? It's like the VHS versus beta debate all over again. Yeah. Like just think of fog hashing
[00:43:55] Unknown:
or these plethora of companies that are making cooling infrastructure. They have to make two different systems. Right. Why? Yeah. What do you have any insight into like what motivated them to make that handshake agreement? If I recall correctly, it sounded like Bitmain was big mad about it and made it clear. Don't even try to copy our form factor.
[00:44:14] Unknown:
Because the guy that made the Watsminer was a former Bitmain engineer? Yes. Yes. And he went to jail over some dispute.
[00:44:22] Unknown:
Really? Yeah. Apparently twice. Were, there was, was like, yeah, big mad lawyers. I don't know how this goes down in China, but like there was some accusation of theft of intellectual property and stuff. And it sounds like, you know, from the rumors that I've heard that, you know, the, the settlement here was that like, we will not have the same form factor. Like yours will be distinctly different. Crazy. It is crazy.
[00:44:46] Unknown:
Yeah. And the, we floated the idea about normalizing this stuff. And some of the pushback we got was, well, Bitmain will never. And my reaction to that is kind of like, that's the point, they're lost, you know? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It is going to be their loss. Like, once this gains momentum, you just wouldn't want to be the odd man out. Yeah. They don't really have a choice if everyone else if all the infrastructure shifts to a normalized status quo. Well, we've got a lot of ground to cover. We do. We do. A lot of work to be done. Yeah. We got a 125 mil hash board right now. Yeah.
We'll get there. We'll get there. And One telehash at a time. One telehash at a time. Most certainly. It was great to talk about the DOOMACS and get to show that off. Some more folks, I think less so than the Bitcoin conference where they were more understanding of what it represented rather than asked to buy it. That's good. Because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding
[00:45:41] Unknown:
about what the two fifty six Foundation is and what it does. And there just seems to be this general perception that the two fifty six Foundation exists to produce hard to produce products and sell them. And that's a misconception. The two fifty six Foundation is a nonprofit public charity that raises money to support developers to build the open source Bitcoin mining ecosystem. Ecosystem. So, you know, that's a that's a big difference than, like, a entity that's in business to produce hardware and sell products. I I don't know where we went wrong in our communication or marketing or whatever, but it's just I'm I'm always surprised when time and again, I see see that that needs to be clarified with people. I don't know if we necessarily
[00:46:28] Unknown:
said something wrong. I think it's just not a very well known concept. No one's done this in Bitcoin mining before. Yeah. It's very common in other industries. Very, very common. But no one's done this in Bitcoin mining before. We're we're early. True. So there's not a good, good parallel in this industry to look at and be like Yeah. That's what's going on. Will the Two Five Six Foundation
[00:46:50] Unknown:
make and sell dev kits though, Eko, or or will we have other organizations work alongside us to to get those out in a validated state? Yeah. No. I don't as far as I know, I could be wrong, but as far as I know, as a public charity,
[00:47:04] Unknown:
the two fifty six Foundation's never going to sell things. Like, it's a nonprofit, so there can be no profit scheme where the foundation is, like, selling things. Like, hence why, you know, Proto was able to donate all of those PZM two ASIC chips to the foundation and the foundation was able to turn around and give those away for free where the recipients only had to pay for the shipping costs. Now the foundation can like, fund developers to design dev kits and spec out dev kits and, you know, define what the reference implementation of a dev kit is. But I think it's always gonna be up to friends in the manufacturing arena to actually produce that stuff and sell it. I personally and, you know, subject to change, but just speaking for myself, I personally don't ever see
[00:47:54] Unknown:
the two fifty six Foundation, like, actually producing and selling things itself. Yeah. Good to clarify. Yeah. But I think I still think that's a workable model. We're we're best suited to design these dev kits and all the components that go into them. And we publish everything open source. Right. So that's out there and manufacturers
[00:48:11] Unknown:
can pick it up and and run with it. Right? And and start manufacturing them and selling them at a profit. Something also worth mentioning is, obviously, this reverse engineering and all the hard work from you guys has been done in a combative relationship with Bitmain. It's not like they're answering our emails and saying, yeah. It's just this line in the datasheet. Right? That is not to say that we're avoiding that. If you're an ASIC manufacturer and you're starting to get open source build and you see the value proposition of reference designs and an open firmware and an open pool and you want to participate in that, but you don't fully understand it or a lot of these companies are Chinese. Right? They may not fully grasp it. We can serve as that helping hand to say, hey. Don't worry about it. We're gonna work with you and try to get through maybe a language barrier or some ignorance on open source law and all of that to build towards this reference design, this platform that we're just gonna give away. And and I think that that's kind of a call to action to our 3,000,000 listeners. Right? If you're BitDeer or Bitmain or MicroBT or Canon or whatever, like, we're happy to have those conversations. Yeah. Like, what is there to lose in working with us too? Right? It's like, I I just
[00:49:17] Unknown:
don't see the downsides. Right? You can expend minimal effort to work with us and get us the, you know, the documentation for your ASICs or your protocol or your machines, whatever. And we're just going to expose
[00:49:31] Unknown:
you to more potential customers. Yeah. Because it's like, even if someone had the exact blueprint specifications and, like, fabrication instructions for one of Bitmain's ASIC chips, it's not like you can just approach TSMC with all that information and start getting those produced. Right? Like there's Not even close. You need like tens of millions of dollars and like a very tight relationship and like Well, also what we need from the data sheet to communicate with them is not the building block for the chip itself. Right, Scott? No. But I'm just saying, like, even if they like, there's to his point that there's nothing to lose. Like, even if Bitmain, like, totally open source their blueprint for the ASIC chip, like, what is anyone else in the world gonna do with that information? There's no downside to it. There's no downside to it. Yeah. There really is no downside to it. It's it's not like this is it's easy to start manufacturing an ASIC. Right? That information,
[00:50:30] Unknown:
it's not going to enable your your competitors in any way. And also your competitors probably already know it. Like your real competitors. Right? True. The the ones that actually do have the capability to make an ASIC, they probably already know. Like, they're not dummies. They live in this world. They know Right. What you They probably worked at your company previously. That's also true. They
[00:50:51] Unknown:
probably went to jail twice for stealing intellectual property. Yeah. It's a point, though. I mean, that's not unique to Bitcoin mining. I mean, these these hyper niche, highly specialized, very skilled individuals, they they cross pollinate across companies. It's a very closed group. That's how it is in the broader computing space, GPUs, CPUs. I mean, these are top dogs, really. There's not that many of them. Yeah. It's a small world in in the niche you get into. Yeah. And, you know, the ASIC manufacturers don't need to get hung up on this. Right? You do not need to provide the blueprints for your ASIC to
[00:51:23] Unknown:
enable the two fifty six Foundation to create more customers for you. You just don't. Right? What we need is, you know, as detailed a register map as you can provide, but no one no one is gonna be able to reverse engineer your secret sauce in your inside your ASIC from a register map. So if companies like Proto from Block that are more privy to this see the value and they just release a data sheet and God forbid their own little reference
[00:51:50] Unknown:
hash board design that's open source, maybe not the one that's fully in the rig, but just to say hypothetically or or say Bitmain did it. Right? And they did everything effectively that Ember one does and maybe for their firmware as well with their chip and their datasheet. Does that just eliminate work that the two five six Foundation would inevitably have to go do or seek to do? Yeah. That would be amazing. Right? That
[00:52:11] Unknown:
that takes a bunch of lift off of those who hope to make Bitcoin miners, those who want to buy your chips. You know, it lowers the barrier to them buying your chips. This is very common. I've said it a million times. This is very common in the rest of the electronic component industry. Well, I guess I'm curious about the rest of electronics industry is that do the chip manufacturers do this or does a nonprofit in between do it because they're too thick skulled to do it? I think it's both, actually. Okay. The Arduino Foundation, the Arduino company, I don't believe is a nonprofit, but, you know, they take Atmel chips and make the Arduino out of it. Atmel also makes dev boards for their chips because they want they want people to buy the chips. So they can coexist. Yeah. They can absolutely coexist. And actually, somewhat ironically over time, those two worlds have sort of come not, like, combined, but they they reference each other. Right? Like, That's funny. When Atmel, which actually got bought by Microchip, but when they wanna make a new dev board for whatever it is they're releasing, if it's a microcontroller, they'll put the Arduino form factor headers on it because they want that whole ecosystem to just, you know, start using it. They wanna lower the barriers to people buying their chips. They they wanna lower the barriers to people building products with their chip inside. Mhmm. This is making too much sense. Yeah. Makes too much sense. Like what we were talking about with the standardization
[00:53:31] Unknown:
around the the data center equipment. Right? It's like just look to these other industries. Like, they've done it. They did it for a reason, and they're seeing Mhmm. The benefits of it. We just old clunky Bitcoin miners need to get our act together here. Not to drastically shift gears, but I this just came to my mind for some reason. Do you guys see in the news about something out of the Trump administration wanting to, like, dictate that Bitcoin mining is done here in America? Did you see I recall that from a while ago. Did he mention it again? Call some headline, like, just the other day, yesterday, or day before. I'll see if I can find it. Yeah. Same. Come back. I'll circle back. What does that mean though? So we can like pare our way through the Strait Of Hormuz. Yeah. I don't know. I'll, I'll see if I can find it and circle back. The, there, I mean, there has been
[00:54:16] Unknown:
some push from the US government to get a little bit of a handle on how imported computers are being used, what software is running on it, where they're being manufactured. Cause it does, it does potentially represent a risk to our infrastructure. The internet. Is this related to the FCC router thing as well? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right? The FCC under direction of the administration, I assume, said that they will not issue new licenses to Chinese made Wi Fi chips. Like, anything that has a wireless transmitter in it needs to get approval, and a license essentially from the FCC, the Federal Communications Commission. They wanna make sure that it's playing nice on the the wireless spectrum and that, you know, it's, you know, basically plays nice in the the whole wireless spectrum, which is, you know, for the public's use. So you need to get a license. And they basically are like, we're not giving new licenses to Chinese made WiFi chips, which is definitely interesting. It kinda makes sense because not only are these chips potentially wreaking havoc on the wireless spectrum, the wireless communications spectrum, but they're also connected to the Internet. They're connecting everyone's devices, which now are used for financial transactions, for, you know, like secrets from companies. Right? All all this important data is flowing over Wi Fi and over the Internet, which these devices are connected to. So the potential for foul play is huge.
Like you could you could cause some absolute chaos if you wanted to this stuff. So that that makes sense. The the sort of well, the very unfortunate part of this all is that all Wi Fi chips are made in China. All of them. And so I think, you know, all the big Wi Fi router manufacturers were like, hold up. You're gonna just put us out of business. And so they obviously have lobbyists, and they can go to the government and be like, hold up. Hold up. Hold up. Like, you can't you can't just put us out of business. Right? We have no alternatives for these Wi Fi chips. So I believe there's been some exemptions.
It's like, you can you can get approval to do this if you, like, pinkies pinky promise that you're working on fixing it, which is,
[00:56:24] Unknown:
it's a tough spot to be in because we don't have any alternatives right now, and it's a long road to getting those alternatives. And it does make me curious if the if state actors, the administration does start to value Bitcoin mining as a strategic national interest, if they look under the hood and realize how it all works in that industry
[00:56:42] Unknown:
and supply chains, they're gonna go, my gosh. Wait a second. We gotta fund the two five six foundation. Yes. Yo, Trump. I know you listen to the show. You gotta fund the two five six foundation. Foundation. The Bitcoin network is controlled, like, exclusively at this point by Chinese, you know, state run manufacturers that make this equipment and the firmware and all this. And, oh, yeah, by the way, they have put sketchy stuff. They have put backdoors in the past. We have documented proof that this has already happened.
[00:57:11] Unknown:
So let's do this. Random thought. Do you think when because we've heard this through industry contacts and general knowledge that if you're a large miner, you mentioned it earlier, Scott, they might spend the r and d to solve a lot of these problems themselves. Some of them to the point where they make their own firmware or they work with the third party firmware manufacturers to get kind of like a custom image is how I understand it for their miners. When they do that, do you think they will say, hey, we can't rely on your license server or no dev fee? Do you think they get what they want to that degree? No. I don't know how these discussions go down. Like,
[00:57:45] Unknown:
if you have this, like, $10,000,000,000 company
[00:57:51] Unknown:
that comes to you and says, need these changes in the firmware. Yeah. I wonder what kinda what kinda Well, because that's what get. That's what Schnitzel said he learned from chatting with folks in Vegas at the Bitcoin conference, talking about Mugena and number one and LibreBoard and HydroPool to a lot of these larger miners and, like, CTOs, like technical guys, not the CEO. People that know how the operations work. And and effectively, lot of the feedback that Schnitzel got was, yeah, mean, I don't really have any problems right now because the large suppliers, third party firmware manufacturers, even Bitmain to some degree, like, they're so big, they'll just do what I want. So they didn't necessarily see the value proposition in two fifty six because they're like, I'm big enough that I can just make them do what I want anyways. And how do we break that barrier down?
[00:58:36] Unknown:
We need more competition in the field, right? You You have know, a lot of leverage when you're running a $10,000,000,000 company with Bitmain, but they also have a lot of leverage too, right? Because if they tell you to just pound sand, you don't have a lot of other options. That's true. The risk is still there because you're reliant. You're you're relying on them, especially because the number two micro BT has a different form factor, and it would be, like, absurd to, like, change your whole pharma over to that. So, yeah, you're like, I want this change. I don't want, you know, this this feature to happen, and that's gotta be a difficult negotiation.
[00:59:08] Unknown:
Yeah. I wonder if eventually something's just gonna collapse like a house of cards or some supplier is gonna go out of business, some critical supplier, or some company could just say no and totally screw over a large mining operation.
[00:59:22] Unknown:
Almost makes me wonder if something bad has to happen for the industry to wake up and snap out of it. Yeah, right. I got to believe that when these big mining companies go to Bitmain and they say, Hey, we need this feature. It's some sort of immediate need for their operation. Right? It's gonna be a, the ability to turn off the miners or over an API, some change there that will make it work better with their their operation, but like a short term kind of need. Right? But like, are they thinking about network security? Like, are they making those requests? Like, we need to like, able to audit the the security of this. Right? We're doing millions of dollars a month in revenue from these machines. We need to be able to audit it.
[01:00:05] Unknown:
I'm guessing. That, I don't know. Because some of these large mining operators you meet, like, they're just making money. They I don't even think they really know how it works. I do get that sense.
[01:00:14] Unknown:
I do get that sense. Right? There's always the game theory thing where you're like, well, Bitmain wouldn't dare put some backdoor or some sneaky feature in there that would harm their image. What you know, like, where are you gonna go? Right? If you don't wanna use Bitmain, where are you gonna go? And that's is not a good situation to be in. No. Yeah. Very interesting. And it's frustrating because if you're not ordering 10,000 machines at a time, they just don't pay attention to you. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Like we heard it at the DEXTEN Energy Mining Summit, like this landscape is changing seemingly really fast, right, as miners pivot out. There's some miners, like, shout out to Electron. They're like, nope.
We are we are Bitcoin Maxis. We're sticking with Bitcoin mining. But, you know, the industry is definitely changing. And I think this is good opportunity to bring up these things that we need, like alternatives, that we need more competition, that we need the ability to have control over our operation, like, more control over operation because we need more operational efficiency, right, just to survive in the market. They actually speaking of Electron, Rafa put electronics.dev. It's electronics with a k. Electronics.dev, and it's this huge dump of all the data that he's collected over the years, some amazing charts, and things like that. The one I like the most is if you click on the hardware tab up on the top and go to the ASIC database, there's a chart of the efficiency of Bitcoin miners over time. Yeah. And this this tripped me up, but Rafaq, he clarified it to me. This is the vertical axis is on a log scale. That is important to note. So if you put that on a linear scale, this is gonna look like it's sort of like logarithmically tapering out. But what it shows is that the efficiency gains over time are slowing down. Right? So it's there's, I mean, there's probably gonna be new machines every two years or whatever, but the efficiency gains are slowing down. Which makes sense because, know, you're going from say like, you know, 20 nanometers
[01:02:10] Unknown:
to 10 to five to four to three to two to one. Like, you can't get like, isn't two nanometer, like, eight silicon atoms wide? Yeah.
[01:02:21] Unknown:
Is that the Yeah, think so. Yeah, exactly. I think we went from like 11 at three nanometer to like eight or something like that, if I remember correctly. Yeah. And even two nanometers having some growing pains. I heard some rumors that TSMC is like is basically like they're not really, like, ready for mining ASICs at two nanometers. Insane. We're on, like, the edge of, like, physics here. Yes. Yes. Man, this this is cool. I heard someone was talking about this the other day. So you know, the that that nanometer scale is the like node process size. It doesn't refer to anything specifically, but it's it's generally like the size of a transistor on the chip. When you're at these small sizes, like quantum effects come into play. You cannot like accurately predict how the transistor will work. You only can have like statistically what the, the, you know, where the performance will fall sort of statistically, like in a range. Dude. It's insane.
Right? That is insane. You kind of just have to build it and see how it comes out. And of course, there's gonna be a wide range of how they actually turn out. But even in your simulations,
[01:03:28] Unknown:
it's getting harder and harder to say like, oh, it will perform like this madness. This dashboard is wild. It even has a log of how many miners have been released that are air cooled, hydro cooled, and immersion cooled over time. And immersion's dead. Good. Immersion miners were released from 2022 to 2025. It's just that was actually a theme I noticed at temps. Yeah. No one no one is bullish on immersion anymore. Everyone's like, we tried it, and it sucks, and good riddance. We're done with Going to hydro. Man, he must have so much data.
[01:03:58] Unknown:
This is so cool. This is really cool. This is, this is such, like, a bullish thing to see for a mining company to, like, even have this data, much less just publish it for everyone. Yeah. Forecasting 2 joules per terahash in 2031. Yeah. I will see about that. 2 joules per terahash. That's insane. Although, you know, BitDeer, they're issuing press releases like no one's business. Maybe they'll
[01:04:22] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. They have four or five or yeah. That's true. A lot of these manufacturers I haven't heard of. Antech,
[01:04:29] Unknown:
Ebang, Hollick, Hornbill. I think a lot of those are kinda more on the left side of the chart. Yeah. But yeah, I have strong U, Hollick, ASIN. I like the the unit economics section
[01:04:41] Unknown:
because you can see on here an Antminer s 23 hydro could earn a daily profit of $11.91 or I guess breakeven at 15¢ a kilowatt hour, if I'm reading this correctly. Whereas the Antminer t 19 hydro on the opposite end of the scale would lose $2.87 a day, breaking even at 3.8¢, if I'm reading that right. That's interesting. Or it would it would mine 1 Bitcoin today for a $117,000. So negative 57% margin. What what tab is that one under? So I went to at the top where it says hardware, I went down to ASIC comparison. And then if you scroll down on ASIC comparison toward the bottom Nice. Yeah. There's unit economics section. Modeling guy.
[01:05:29] Unknown:
It's gonna be harder to Yeah. Collect the data on, but sort of like a longevity of the unit too. I feel like every new miner that's announced, like, give it six months and it will be declared as the least reliable miner ever. Yeah. So my fleet is the What's Miner m 30 s plus
[01:05:47] Unknown:
range. So they're all losing a dollar 47 a day. All of this modeling,
[01:05:52] Unknown:
trying to pick systems, upgrades, total cost of ownership, ROIs, etcetera. I mean, you have to do it right now, especially as every year, there have been substantial efficiency gains. But I think as soon as this starts to taper out, a lot of this is just unnecessary. Yeah. We'll see. I mean, it it's good to, like, make try to try to make informed decisions.
[01:06:12] Unknown:
Yeah. You know? You just you never know what's gonna happen, but you can kind of rest assured that hash rate's gonna go up. And if you're smart, you'll be prepared for when the price of Bitcoin goes down as well. But, yeah, I don't know. It's also If this stuff is just integrated into, like, your home appliances, like your hot water heating Yeah. Heater system, yeah, it becomes less relevant, I think. Because you're you're basically
[01:06:36] Unknown:
your primary utility is getting the heat, and then the fact that you get Bitcoin is just icing on the cake. Yeah. Yeah. We looked at our Excel bills, our utility bills more recently, and they changed our net metering. The the electric rate when you factor in all of the percent charges. Like, the the base rate is 15¢, but when you factor in all the charges, it's, like, 31¢ a kilowatt hour. Bro. And then this is the funny part. It gets banked as credits from the solar if you don't use it. Right? But if you don't use your bank, like, you can apply the credits to the next month's bill. At the end of the year, they pay you out at three cents a kilowatt hour. So 10% of what they charge you to buy them, they'll give you back in dollars. Wait. So the creditor is at 30¢, but if you actually wanna get paid, it's 3¢.
Yeah. It costs 30¢ to buy a kilowatt hour. If you if your solar generates a kilowatt hour kilowatt hour that you don't use, it gets banked as 30¢ of value in your utility account, meaning you don't have to buy the next kilowatt hour, if that makes sense. Yeah. So that that's how they trick you into thinking, well, it's like a 100% net net. Right? But most people don't there's always some leftover at the end of the year, and they they kill them all and pay you out at 3¢. So your your credits get 90% value reduction. In terms of what actually ends up in your pocket, it's just a scheme. I mean, they try to make it as complicated as possible, I think. Net metering is such a rug pull. Mhmm. Like, it's gonna get worse. Finally dove into the thick of it because it it was it was quite, yeah, convoluted, but it's not ideal. Like, there's just no way that they are going to
[01:08:10] Unknown:
pay you retail price for that electricity. Like, wholesalers don't pay retail. It's just the the whole way it's set up. So this this net metering thing, it's it's not gonna last. Right? I mean, maybe there's some subsidies or some like government mandates or something like make them do it, but
[01:08:29] Unknown:
it can't work. Yeah. I'd so much rather just have a miner on the side of the building that turns the excess generation into SATs immediately. A 100%. Yeah. You're on the right track there for sure. Shout out to Chewakali, one of the ecosystem projects under the two five six foundation, direct DC mining with car battery gridless compute. Those guys open sourced Philip and Eric and Janet and their team, how that works. And I think that's super exciting to unlock systems like I just described, really. Did you guys see any activity from Gridless during the telehash?
[01:09:01] Unknown:
Because I didn't notice them on the dashboard. I don't think I did. I don't have them in the logs. Yeah. I was I was kinda surprised to see they weren't on there just with everything else going on recently. Just makes me wonder. Should I read through some people on the hashtash? Yeah. Alright. We got 287
[01:09:17] Unknown:
terahash online right now. Some folks, I think, stayed active since the telehash, which is always great. We're getting some more long term supporters. Like I said, that leaderboard will drop you if you're off for a week. Shout out to Tesserae with a 100 terahash, 110 terahash. They overtook Dylan. He dropped down. He did. Dylan still got a bunch of his some home heating systems and some bit axes named after Star Wars droids. Rehash Heating. Shout out to Josh at Rehash Heating. He's starting to retrofit a handful of these industrial miners into space heaters, stealth miners, things like that. Check out his website. Fax 777 with a plethora of bid access and nerd access. Bitcoin Park Austin. I think, Scott, you reconfigured those when we were there, didn't you? Yeah.
Nice. But not all these. So Okay. Shout out to Jack and Andrew. Yeah. That's rad. Xerji's got the radon mitigation miner online. Nice. Scott, woodminer. Public pool with Little Bobby Tables, Econo Alchemist. Zarka, hardestblocks.org, Tyler, d plus plus agent p. His worker name is gridpool.net.
[01:10:22] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. You wanna talk about that, Iko? I know it's a project that he's working on and I think it's an interesting project. Go to gridpool.net to learn. But let me see if I can just for like a summary on his website. Theory, that sounds like the tab. So Grid Anti Pool operates differently than traditional pools. It's more like a protocol for solo miners to split rewards in exchange for better odds. Nodes maintain a, quote, winners list, unquote, which defines the 299 shared payout slots for the coin based split. Slot zero always belongs to the block finder, so a full template has 300 total payout slots. Miners make their own templates using this coin based payout and submit the highest difficulty shares to the nodes. Nodes keep track of top shares with the on deck list.
Hit air quotes again. Once someone finds a golden nonce and the winner's list is paid on the Bitcoin blockchain, on deck list becomes the new winner's list. This model has some interesting attributes. It should have scalable resistance to block withholding attacks since a block withholding miner would usually hurt themselves more than the other miners. It is trivial to run decentralized and bandwidth requirements between nodes are very small. It can be used by small lottery miners to increase their odds of a smaller jackpot and by large pools to lower their variance in coordination with other pools while controlling their own templates. It doesn't have the centralization pressure caused by a fast caused by fast block times. So we hope it will be a useful option for Bitcoin miners who value decentralization.
So, yeah, basically, I mean, if I could put it in my own words, like, you'd have to be running one of these grid pool nodes. Right? So there's, like, this side chain happening, if I understand correctly. Similar to, like, p to pool v two where you have a side chain involved. Is that your guys' understanding? Yeah. I guess I don't understand how how do they synchronize the on deck list between nodes. Did you say that? Yeah. The nodes keep track of top shares with the on deck list. And once someone finds a golden nonce and the winner's list is paid on the Bitcoin blockchain, then the on deck list becomes the new winner's list. Yeah. So I wonder how they're they're distributing that on deck list. Right? Because that's gonna be like a running tally of who's contributed what. Yeah. I think that's where the side chain comes in. Right? Think. Share. I don't know. Why don't we get him on the podcast to talk about it? We should definitely do that. Yes.
[01:13:02] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. He's he's a good guy. He's, been involved in, solar Bitcoin mining too for a while now. He's got a really cool setup, like in his backyard and, direct DC stuff. He's got his his hands into all kind of cool Bitcoin mining stuff. We we definitely do that. Let's get him on the pod. He's very interesting guy. If I'm not mistaken, he's got the 256 Foundation,
[01:13:25] Unknown:
Bitcoin address as one of the pending winners right now. Woah. So like if they mined a block right now, the two fifty six Foundation would get 0.46 BTC. I think that's our address. Let me double check. Wow.
[01:13:39] Unknown:
Let's go grid pool. Let's go. Yep. Definitely want to talk to agent P. If he's listening, come on the podcast. Can reach out. That is also an interesting strategy for discouraging block withholding attacks, right? Is if you give the winner a slightly larger payout, then they hurt themselves more by not submitting Mhmm. Winning blocks. Right? It's not like they just lose out on a share, a value of a share. They lose out on on more. I guess the downside there is that makes everyone else's payout slightly less, but it adds a little bit of lottery lottery,
[01:14:10] Unknown:
aspect to pool mining. Love it. Yeah. That's cool. Shout out to Jason B, Noster profile linked. Jair. Shout out to Jair. I know he's been contributing to the Mugena project and joining the Mugena dev calls that Ryan leads. Johnny nine, Satoki, P Butt Wyler, Ryan, Plunger, Pizzandy, Schnitzel, Tubaloo, and click here in case of mind block. We click here to mind a block? Yeah. What the heck? No. I I clicked on that. I got a little ahead of myself, and it's just a Noster profile that says congratulations, two five six Foundation. Spoiler.
You're yeah. You're supposed to save that. Sorry. It's a cool message. Yeah. You are the resistance. Well, very good. Mean, yeah, I think we we'd love to have more guests on the pod to talk about what you guys are working on and get
[01:14:55] Unknown:
feedback on the two five six Foundation projects and hear what you're excited about with open source mining in general, whether you're a tinkerer or a representative of an insanely large mining operation. Yeah. Well said. Well Anything else you, yeah, you wanna hit on? Or Should we wrap it up there? I I couldn't find this headline about Trump demanding all the Bitcoin be mined within the borders of The United States. So I must have just made I must have just made that up. Yeah. I think we can leave it there. Yeah. Alright. Cool. Well, thanks you guys. Great show. Awesome job at the Telehash last week. Thank you. And you guys were not doing pod two fifty six next week. Right? You got something going on Yeah. In another part of the world? We're both out next week, Scott and I. Alright. To be continued
[01:15:38] Unknown:
the week after that perhaps. Indeed. Okay. Alright. Well, thanks guys. See you guys.