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Keywords:
Samourai Wallet, legal implications, plea bargain, conspiracy charges, Bitcoin, privacy software, chilling effects, sentencing, industry response, political implications, open source

Summary:
The conversation delves into the legal challenges faced by the developers of Samourai Wallet, focusing on the implications of their plea bargain, the nature of conspiracy charges, and the potential chilling effects on privacy software development. The discussion highlights the role of the judiciary in shaping outcomes, the industry response to these legal precedents, and the broader political implications of Bitcoin and privacy in the digital age. The speakers emphasize the need for developers to adopt privacy-conscious practices and the importance of open-source collaboration to mitigate risks.

Takeaways:

• The Samourai Wallet developers are facing serious legal challenges.
• Plea bargains can be a risk mitigation strategy for defendants.
• Conspiracy charges have a lower burden of proof for the government.
• Judicial decisions can significantly impact the legal landscape for developers.
• Chilling effects on software development are a concern for privacy advocates.
• The future of privacy software may be at risk due to legal pressures.
• Industry sentiment is mixed, with concerns about government overreach.
• Political implications of Bitcoin are complex and evolving.
• Developers need to be aware of their digital footprint and privacy practices.
• Open-source collaboration may provide resilience against legal threats.

Chapters:
00:00 The Samourai Wallet Case Overview
02:24 Legal Implications and Charges
04:46 Plea Bargain Dynamics
07:06 Conspiracy Charges Explained
09:46 Precedent and Future Implications
12:15 Chilling Effects on Developers
14:54 Sentencing and Legal Outcomes
17:18 Industry Response and Sentiment
19:32 Future of Privacy Software
22:02 Open Source and Developer Safety
27:10 The Control Agenda Behind Online Safety
29:05 The Political Landscape of Bitcoin
31:45 The State of the Bitcoin Network
34:13 Solo Mining and Its Implications
39:59 Natural Disasters and Their Impact on Infrastructure

In this episode, we delve into the complex legal situation surrounding the Samourai Wallet developers, who have been charged with conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitting business. Initially facing a daunting 25-year sentence, they have managed to negotiate a plea deal that reduces their maximum sentence to five years. However, they are still burdened with $6,000,000 in fines and the looming uncertainty of their sentencing hearing in November. The discussion highlights the precarious nature of conspiracy charges and the chilling effect this case could have on open-source software developers, particularly those working on privacy-focused projects.

We also explore the broader implications of this case on the Bitcoin and privacy software community. The conversation touches on the potential for precedent-setting legal outcomes, the risks of developing privacy software, and the strategies developers might employ to protect themselves. Additionally, the episode examines the societal and political dynamics at play, including the impact of government actions on personal freedoms and the development of privacy technologies. The hosts express concern over the chilling effect these legal challenges may have on innovation and the future of privacy-focused software development.

[00:00:00] Unknown:

The samurai case, which doesn't make any frigging sense to me.   Oh my gosh. And I hope you could maybe illuminate for us, Iko. Sure. Yeah.  

[00:00:12] Unknown:

It so the good news   is that the   software developers of Samura1 Wallet are not facing   twenty five years in prison. So that's the good news. But the situation just it doesn't quite feel like a win either because   they're still facing   a maximum sentence of five years in prison.   And if I understand correctly, I believe they have $6,000,000   in fines that they need to pay before their sentencing hearing, which is in four months at the November.   Why? So it just it doesn't quite feel like a like a like a win, but let's let's see if I can, like, break this down. So they originally had two charges. One was conspiracy   to operate an unlicensed money transmitting business.  

Yeah. And the other was conspiracy   to launder money. They're a noncustodial   Bitcoin wallet software development   team. So both of those charges were absolute horror should begin with and should have been dismissed. We're planning on going to trial in November to present everything in front of a jury and plead their case to the jury as to why they're not guilty of those two charges. And the government was prepared to explain to the jury why they were guilty of those two charges. The government's logic in arguing that they were guilty of money transmission   was very sketchy.  

And, you know, I I equate it to mental gymnastics.   So the really scary part was that it was looking like if they had gone to jury that there was going to be case law precedent set that if they were found guilty,   that basically establishes   that non custodial   software   Bitcoin wallets are money transmitters. So that would have been bad for everybody in Bitcoin. So   they're not gonna go to trial. The prosecutors   approach them with a plea bargain. I'm not sure if plea bargain is the exact   correct legal term, but, basically,   what I mean when I say plea bargain is that   the prosecutors were willing to, like, make a negotiation with them that wasn't the two charges that they were facing. So the negotiation that they came to was that they would drop the conspiracy to launder money charge,   which carried a maximum sentence of twenty years. In exchange for dropping that charge, the defendants would need to,   change their plea to guilty   for the conspiracy to operate an unlicensed   money transmitting business. And so that charge carries a five year maximum sentence.  

Yeah.   And they were given, from what I understand, a very short window of opportunity   to either accept or deny   this offer. If they had denied it, then they would have been going to trial. And so by going to trial   or by avoiding going to trial, they're avoiding spending the millions of dollars that that would have cost and potentially   just getting the maximum sentences anyways and facing even more fines than the $6,000,000   that they're facing. Right? The judge was   recently swapped out in the case, and the current judge, Judge Cote, is known to be very heavy handed when it comes to,   fines and sentencing. So they wanted to avoid   going to trial for a number of reasons, and this seemed like a better option,   than going to trial. So they   pled guilty to,   one count of the conspiracy   to   operate an unlicensed   money transmitting business. And keep in mind that originally,   there were two objects to that count, which stem from the nineteen sixty   b one   b and nineteen sixty b one c   subsections of that statute, title 18, United States code.  

And the   prosecutors   dropped in an updated indictment. I forget the exact timing. Maybe, like, a month ago. They dropped the one of those subsections,   one of those objects.   And the object that they dropped was related to,   the crime of not obtaining a money transmitter's license or registering with FinCEN as as a money transmitter. And so if you recall, FinCEN had put out some guidance   related to noncustodial   wallets and how they were not money transmitters. And so that was really bad for the prosecutor's case. And so they ended up updating their indictment and they just, like, nixed that completely.   But they were still pursuing   the   conspiracy to operate an unlicensed   money transmitting business charge with the object c of nineteen sixty b one c, which states that the owners,   operators of this quote unquote money transmitting business were aware   that they were facilitating   criminal   proceeds   or something to that effect. You know, basically, in layman's terms, it means that they knew that the money going through Whirlpool was of,   criminal   derived criminal. So, yeah, they could have gone to court to fight that, but, like, they also could just not put up all the added expense to fight that battle and not take the risk. So, you know, the plea bargain's really like a risk mitigation strategy.  

And,  

[00:05:49] Unknown:

I mean, just to be just to be clear on this, though. So, like, if for that charge to stick, is it the case that the government only has to prove that they were aware   that there was somebody   illicit   via the broad banking system or some undesired   transactor   was using samurai?   Because that that sort of seems like the case where if you were operating samurai and you knew that even one person   was an illicit operator using your your entity,   your your business, that seems like a a very low   bar to have to prove. Like, if if that's the stake and the government goes, we will prove that you knew that at least one person who was not allowed in the banking system   was using your protocol, was using your software. That's a situation that would make sense to me where, like, yeah, if if the burden of proof for the government is just that there only has to be one. And if all I have to do is be aware that one person who is is not is a disfavored entity, right, to use kind of a legalese term, that seems like an extremely low bar. Is that kind of the correct interpretation as to why they might want to take a plea deal? Because it's actually incredibly easy to prove that you potentially know that there's at least one person who is a disfavored entity using your service? Well, so the short answer is, like, we don't exactly know what it would take to convince a jury  

[00:07:13] Unknown:

that samurai law was guilty   or not guilty of that charge based on the evidence that they they would have been presented. And so if you look at the court documents that have been filed so far and you read what the defense has been saying, the government would have to prove that samurai wallet,   was aware of, like, very specific   instances.   Mhmm. You know? And if you read what the government argues, they argue the opposite. And that that's the whole problem here is that you've got two sides of this case. One side is saying, like, you're alluding to that it's a very low threshold,   and that it's very easy to prove conspiracy.  

And that's the whole thing about these conspiracy charges that you gotta keep in mind. They're not they were not actual charged with doing actual money laundering. That's right. And they weren't charged with actually operating an unlicensed   money transmitting business. They were just charged with conspiracy  

[00:08:12] Unknown:

to do those things. That's how they got Martha Stewart.  

[00:08:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. I explained that. On the conspiracy, not the actual insider trading. Yep. So like you're saying, conspiracy,   typically, yes. It's way easier to prove conspiracy because then all you have to do is all the government would have had to do is demonstrate to a jury and present evidence to them that convinces them beyond a reasonable doubt that the operators,   the two software developers   agreed with each other to do this, to, you know, move criminal funds or to,   let   Whirlpool be used for for money laundering. And that is a much lower bar to set than to prove that someone actually did the crime of money laundering or that someone actually did the crime of operating an unlicensed money transmitting business. Yeah. So because all you have to really do is catch somebody  

[00:09:05] Unknown:

either catch somebody in a lie or use their own words on record   against them in a sense. Right? Like, then it kinda becomes a game of if we're looking through years of chat logs between these guys   and somebody cracks a joke about   I think it was even in some of the discovery commentaries about people talking about, like, so so and so actor, so and so individual or entity moving funds. But all they have to do is take sort of quotes out of context or Right. Or a shitpost in a, in a chat. And the second it's presented as evidence, it's a very different conversation. And they they had to see the shenanigans happening in the tornado cash trial where the prosecution could use chain analysis and the defense  

[00:09:46] Unknown:

couldn't.   It's just sort of, like, very unevenly,   you know, enforced who can present what data from different forensic tools. Yeah. And that's the really unfortunate  

[00:09:55] Unknown:

and sketchy part about this too is that the judge is the gatekeeper when it comes to what evidence is presented to the jury and what evidence is not presented to the jury.   So, like   like we saw in in both cases, Tornado Cash and Samurai Wallet, the judges have been very favorable to the prosecutors in letting them   do what they wanna do, but very harsh with the defense teams and not letting them do what they wanna do. The chain analysis thing is a great example. Ironically, the even chain analysis doesn't wanna get involved with that. In that case, they're saying that they're the that witness was gonna plead the fifth if called to the stand to testify.  

[00:10:35] Unknown:

It's messy, but the so is the worry now that we have precedent that now the context is lost and people either,   are harsher in sentencing   or   this disincentivizes   certain behaviors in the market?   Like, are there what what are the immediate downstream effects? So,  

[00:10:54] Unknown:

the thing about the precedent is what's not getting set now is there's not going to be any case law precedent set in this matter.  

[00:11:04] Unknown:

Good.   Right?  

[00:11:06] Unknown:

Well, which is good. However, I would argue that now   the government has essentially gotten away with punishing   open source, noncustodial   Bitcoin wallet developers   for conspiracy to operate   an unlicensed money transmitting business. And they I I would not be surprised if they   try to do that again and again and again. So I do think until someone actually does fight this in court and gets the precedent set in case law that noncustodial  

[00:11:40] Unknown:

software wallet developers are not unlicensed money transmitters, you know, I I think that we're gonna continue seeing developers targeted like this. And and the the chilling effect of just having to go through this process. Right? These guys are gambling with their freedom. Right? They have to look at this plea deal and just gamble. Right? Because they don't know what the outcome of the jury could be based on not knowing what evidence they can provide and what will be admissible.   And so now they have to be, like, five years. You know, just the the thought of going through that is a massive chilling effect for anyone working in this area. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I think there definitely will be chilling effects, you know, like I mean, look at the Ashigaru devs, for example. Could like, totally  

[00:12:24] Unknown:

anonymous,   no social media presence, no Telegram   presence. Like, they only   communicate over encrypted messages sent via email. And if   that's   the   sort of measures that software developers   need to take to protect themselves going forward, then there's gonna be a lot less cool software out there for everybody to use. It's hard enough when we can just develop this stuff out in the open. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, it's a pretty sobering day. I'm thankful that they're not facing twenty five years and, like, even harsher penalties, financial penalties. But still, this just feels like a total punch to the gut.   And it it does seem like the prosecutors basically were like, look. We know you didn't actually transfer funds on behalf of the public,   and we know that you know that we know that.  

But we can technically make the legal argument and convince a judge and jury that you did. And so we're gonna do that unless you do exactly what,   we we offer you to do, which is, you know, take this this plea deal in this very short amount of time. Technically, gives the DOJ a win.   And then, you know, this this is all, like, at the end of the tornado cash case too. So we'll see what happens there. But, like like, if if Roman Storm is is acquitted by the jury and found not guilty,   I I mean, I think that would I would be very happy for him and his team.   And I think maybe in that circumstance, the legal team for samurai wallet may may Kinda regret their choices almost. Yeah. I may second guess the their strategy. But if Roman Storm is found guilty of any of the charges and and face faces harsh penalties and jail time, then I think there'll be no doubt in the samurai wallet defense team's minds that they made the right choice by taking this plea deal. And, you know, I don't know. Perhaps the the Roman storm case, like, has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the samurai wallet case, and they just looked at their own   set of circumstances   and made the best decision based on the information that they had. You know? None of us were there, so none of us can can really comment on it and, like, what it takes to make a decision like that. But, obviously,   it's it's not   a decision that's made lightheartedly.  

And, god, I just I just feel so bad for these guys even in light of this   being better than   what they were facing   prior to this.  

[00:15:04] Unknown:

So the the maximum sentence is five years. Do we have any indication if there was an actual sentence, like, in the plea deal, or how does that work? Like, does it is it just determined after the fact once the plea deal? So there's gonna be a sentencing hearing in November. I I think in November. Maybe October. I I can't recall. But, yeah, there's gonna be a a separate sent a separate hearing that happens  

[00:15:27] Unknown:

where the judge determines what that sentencing will be. And then we'll find out if, you know, it could be something good like, you know what? Time served.   You guys are done. You can take off your ankle monitors. Thanks for the $6,000,000   in fines. You're free to go. Or the judge could decide to give them the maximum five year penalty, or it could be anything in between. But there's not gonna be a jury involved.   So, basically, at this point, it's just totally up to the judge  

[00:15:57] Unknown:

Is there   whatever she decides. All I know is from, like, TV shows, but is there ever sort of with these plea deals, any, like like, sentence, like, as a part of the deal? I mean,   it seems like a an an an like, open ended gamble to go into.  

[00:16:13] Unknown:

Yeah. I think I think the prosecutors   can make recommendations   to the judge, and I think what we'll probably see are some letters from both sides trying to influence the judge's decision. So, you know, there'll probably be some letters of support from the defense saying why,   it should be less time, you know, depending on what the   opposite and advocate for maximum   five year penalty or, you know, they might be, quote, unquote, nice about it and and agree with the defense or at least not disagree with the defense. But, yeah, I think we'll we'll probably see some letters to the judge regarding sentencing from either side, and the judge will if she's unbiased,   honest, we'll take those into consideration.  

But I have doubts   about how honest and unbiased she is because you gotta keep in mind there was a a motion to dismiss, and there was no hearing   about that motion to dismiss. And the judge didn't didn't make a ruling on the motion to dismiss. So I think that's pretty unfair and unfortunate, and I I really think the prosecutors   I think it was a dick move to put such a a tight timeline   on their ability to accept or deny this plea deal, and it didn't really give them the time they needed to   to make the best   or I I don't know. I don't know. Maybe maybe they did make the best decision based on on what they had to work with. It seems like It just seems so one-sided.  



[00:17:41] Unknown:

It seems like such a strategy. Right? The prosecution just they're incentivized to throw absolutely everything they can, right, to bluff   and to force this steal. It doesn't seem to be any downside for them doing that either, which is pretty unfortunate.  

[00:17:54] Unknown:

What's the industry response, Ben? I mean, seems pretty  

[00:17:58] Unknown:

surface level. You know, we there's no   from what I can see, there's no, like, public   court filings yet. So all we have to go off of is, like, what people like Frank Korva have heard in the courtroom and Zach Shapiro, like,   the guys who are actually there to hear it firsthand and and what they've said on Twitter, which I think Frank and Zach can both articulate   what they heard and the implications of it pretty accurately.   I did see some other posts flying around, like, from inner city press, and it sounds like they may have misrepresented   or, like, misinterpreted   some of the information that they were hearing when they were there. So, I mean, there's, like, this $237,000,000   forfeiture   number flying around. I'm not exactly sure what that is. I do think that they will be paying up to $6,000,000   in the next four months prior to the sentencing hearing.  

Wow.   I think the the five year   maximum sentence, I think that number is accurate. But as far as, like, the dollar numbers go, I don't know.   We just need some dust to settle. We need some transcripts to get published publicly and some time to digest that. But, yeah, I think, generally, from my perspective,   general sentiment is that this is a   positive development, but it's it just it doesn't feel good.   Yeah. You know, the the DOJ is punishing software developers   under a money transmission  

[00:19:30] Unknown:

statute, and that just feels really dirty. Dirty. What's on the bright side, Eco? What do we have to look forward to in the world of self sovereignty and privacy?  

[00:19:38] Unknown:

Well, I mean, on   the bright side, their sentence is reduced   to five years max, so that's good. I think anyone   willing to work on open source privacy   software has been able to observe what's been going on with Tornado Cash and and Samurai Wallet and even the cases prior to it Yeah. And   and hopefully learn from   other people's trials and tribulations   and use that information to form good habits that are going to keep them safe. I think that's about the best we can hope for. But I think  

[00:20:15] Unknown:

this might be a dumb question.   If it's gonna be that hard to to develop privacy software, I think we're just gonna see a lot less privacy software getting developed, which is very unfortunate for everyone. I I mean, this this might be, like, a little bit of a silly question. But does it does it create a situation where if if you kinda know what the stakes are coming into it, and if you're gonna go into this line of work,   you practice a degree of personal privacy hygiene that is   already beyond what the normal person is willing to do. Like, the Ishigaru dudes would not be doing what they would were doing if they didn't already have, you know, above and beyond beyond average capabilities and maintaining privacy.   Do do you I mean, I could even see a response from folks where it becomes   even more the the privacy only increases. Right? Like, if there's if there's even a a potential risk of   being charged for conspiracy because somebody is shitposting   in some kind of communications channel,   then it becomes very obvious that this becomes, like, totally verboten. It's not a thing that you do anymore. Right? Or if there's ever the risk of even having knowledge of who is using your service, folks work twice as hard to make sure that they're sort of blinded   from potentially   doxing or understanding, you know, the   who exactly is using their privacy focused service. Like, is that a naive perspective to think that folks who already have a kind of capability   and the the passion and drive to develop this kind of privacy   privacy stack that they don't just come back and say, like, hey. Screw you guys. Like, we're we're gonna know even less about   our users. Like,   we're  

[00:21:56] Unknown:

Well, I We're simply gonna make it more standard to be just as private or even more private. I got two thoughts on that. One is, you know, a lot of people don't always start out from the onset   as making a conscious decision that they're gonna be, like, a privacy focused software developer.   And so I think a   a lot of people may find themselves, like, leaving a trail of breadcrumbs   and exposing private details that   could lead to legal entity their legal identifying information without really thinking about it at the onset. And, you know, unfortunately, it's like once you put that information out there, there's absolutely no getting it back. And so unless people are, like, making that switch and, like like, deleting   or abandoning   a prior online persona that they had and just, like, spinning up a completely fresh one Yeah. Trying to make sure that they're not, like, stepping on any landmines. You know, I I think people just kinda, like, gradually get into this stuff and, like, start making contributions   and leave these breadcrumbs, and I I think those can, you know, eventually come back to buy Back to haunt you. Yeah. And then as far as, like, you know, making it so that, like, they know less information,   I think I think that'll probably happen to some degree, but I don't think anyone   is is   is fooling themselves   here about the fact that the government is displaying once again. If they don't like you and they want to take you out, they will bend the rules. They will grease the axles of the judges. They will do every dirty trick in the book they can possibly do   to shut you down and put you away. How much And, this this drive do you think is related to the developers specifically versus Bitcoin? Well, I mean, I know they were on the verge of decentralizing   Whirlpool   at the time that they were arrested. I think, you know, their their tweets, some of their social media posts have been mentioned several times. Even in the in the hearing this morning, the judge explicitly   brought up a tweet from each of the defendants.  

So, yeah, I think their their social media   comments and presence really pissed people off. Unfortunately, for those people that were upset by those tweets, you know, it's not a crime   to say those things. But this just goes into this just goes to show you that, like, if somebody has a problem with you, if the government has a problem with you, federal prosecutors have a problem with you, whoever, it they will figure out a way to, like, twist the words of the law   to take you out. And so I really think that there's some cool developments happening in the Bitcoin space. I really do believe that samurai wallet was on the absolute   bleeding edge of privacy   development. And,  

[00:24:46] Unknown:

I I do think they were targeted for that and taken out because of that. You know, like, to help, obviously not to guarantee, but to help your yourself from becoming from from preventing yourself from becoming a target or your project from becoming a target now or in the future should, you know, sentiment change, you know, getting   it it open source and getting it out there and getting a lot of collaborators   helps, right? Because now now it becomes incredibly difficult to have as big of a chilling effect,   right? Because there's not like a single person that they can throw the book at that brings it down or that that like obviously there would be a chilling effect if sort of the main contributor of a project got the book thrown at them, but, like, with so many more you know, with so many contributors   and so many people working on it, the more, the better. Yeah. And the fastest way that I can think to do that is just   going all in on open source, like publishing often and early and getting it out there. Yeah. And it it creates redundant  

[00:25:51] Unknown:

copies of the software if, you know, the primary contributor or, you know, one of the people who started the project gets taken out, like, all the code is still out there on other people's local copies that they can they can do something with. Right. That's one of the issues when when samurai wallet got arrested in their servers or sees there were  

[00:26:10] Unknown:

some parts of the code that, you know, weren't, like, available on GitHub for other people to grab. Yeah. I mean, you know, don't don't do illegal things, but we know it can change. Right? Exactly. What's illegal can change? What we could be doing right now could be illegal at some point. And so taking these things into consideration like privacy,   but then also sort of getting that target off your back with open source, I think,  

[00:26:35] Unknown:

it's pretty valuable. Yeah. You never know when the pendulum's gonna swing and, like, what you're doing today, which is perfectly legal, will be illegal tomorrow, and then you're the criminal for it. I mean, just, like, look at the state of Colorado, like, with three d printing guns. Like  

[00:26:52] Unknown:

It's depressing enough. I'm sorry.  

[00:26:55] Unknown:

Or the police state of Europe Yeah. Where now you have to verify your ID to view various websites that aren't necessarily   adult websites.   You have to verify your age or something. I have have you guys been following that? This seems really weird. I haven't been following  

[00:27:12] Unknown:

it. Docs yourself to,   protect the children kind of thing. It's all under the auspices of trying to protect the things that children can see on the Internet, but you have to KYC to get on certain websites. I know  

[00:27:25] Unknown:

Wikipedia is fighting it. They're like Yeah.   Yeah. They're possibly going you know, it it sounds like The UK may possibly  

[00:27:32] Unknown:

block access to Wikipedia. Like, since when do you have to verify your age to look at an encyclopedia?  

[00:27:38] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, we we all know it's it's just about control. It's not actually about, like, protecting anyone or or keeping   children out of harm's way. They don't they don't give a flying for about any of that. They want control. And, you know, same with the samurai wallet cases. It's not about, like, taking,   the ability for criminals to launder   money away or, like, punishing criminals for money laundering. It's about making sure that individuals   don't get more freedoms and the ability to defend what they value and the freedoms that they do have now. That exploit that,  

[00:28:14] Unknown:

revealed all of the geotagged photos from that dating website on, like, basically the same day. Oh, geez. That was just insane.  

[00:28:22] Unknown:

Like, 70,000   women or, like, a 170,000   single women that it's, like,   now everybody knows that it's, like, that's a single woman. There's no man there to protect her. And, like,   all of her private information,   name, address, date, photograph, your location,   everything, dude. From what I understand, it was the geotagged  

[00:28:43] Unknown:

verification   photos for this service that they said would be deleted   Yeah. That were that were exposed. Like Yep.   It's I'm like, require this. They have this law now to require websites to do this, but I I can't imagine there's any, security best practices on how to properly protect that information that comes along with this bill. So we're just,   you know, waiting on a bunch of people to vibe code these back end systems to protect this, which will just get, like,   vibe hacked, you know, eventually. It's very it's dangerous.  

[00:29:15] Unknown:

Dude, just stay off the list. Like, anything asking you for that level of personal details, just find a different service. It's not worth it. Well, KYC is the illicit activity.  

[00:29:26] Unknown:

Yeah. And I'm I'm really waiting for the moment that is gonna wake up all of the the centrists and the lefties and the progressives   and get them privacy pilled   because that recent Troy Cross   study that he did through the Nakamoto project where they were looking at, like, political leanings and how people perceive Bitcoin, and he found some interesting stuff that, like, the general Bitcoiner   does not fit neatly into a political agenda.   But because of Trump being so friendly to Bitcoin, it has swayed the popular perception because, you know, the Trump brand is so big. It's made people think like, oh, well, Bitcoin must just be that Republican thing or that Trump thing,   because he's embraced it. And I've been I've been itching to figure out what the you know, because the progressives, they have they have good reasons to why they should want Bitcoin. And, like, the the idealist idealistic lefties have good reasons why they should want Bitcoin, because it's for everybody.  

And I'm just kinda waiting for that moment   that is gonna,   like, sovereignty pill people across the political aisle. Right? Where instead of, like,   instead of blaming the communists or the fascists or name calling, you actually can opt out. So I was kinda bummed, to be honest with you,   that with this whole T app leak situation,   the immediate response was to make it into some kind of culture war thing. Oh, it's just the incels, these these damn these damn incels that have hacked our space and ruined it.   And it's like, guys, you're missing the point. Like, the point is that they have to collect this all. Right. Like, it's not the it's not the four, it's not a hacker named 4chan   that you're fighting against. You know what I mean? It's like Yeah. You gotta get sovereignty pilled and not not hate across the political aisle and try to understand, like, no. There are bigger things that are that are sweeping. That doesn't matter who's in power. So I was hoping for it, but I haven't I haven't seen it yet. I don't know what the disconnect is. That, unwillingness   to admit you are wrong about Bitcoin, I think, is a very motivating factor to come up with these scapegoats. Right? Like, oh, it's a Trump thing. They're all Trumpers. Right. Trumper. Yeah. The political the political is that's the best thing about being a bit, a Bitcoiner is that you know that you are you know that you're firmly on one extreme of the bell curve.  

You you don't know which.   And you don't have to worry about, you know, being on a a particular political   agenda or sort of screaming at,   the communist or the fascists or the proud boys or the antifas or, you know, we'll just have fun playing with our Bitcoins, you know. At least I hope that's  

[00:32:03] Unknown:

where that's where people find themselves a little bit above the fray. It is refreshing. It's also a very amazing technical concept too, which you can just sort of dig into that has these these That's how we have fun with our Bitcoins.  

[00:32:14] Unknown:

Matt, should we do I know we're ripping, and I gotta I gotta jump unfortunately right at two. Should we hit,  

[00:32:20] Unknown:

state of the network and hashers quick? Sure. Yeah. I gotta I gotta jump at the top of the hour as well.   Brilliant. I'm on it. We are tight timeline today.  

[00:32:30] Unknown:

Back to back. Hopefully, we get you out of the electrical closet.  

[00:32:34] Unknown:

Well, I got yeah. I yeah. Thanks. I gotta go,   fix a plumbing issue that I have at home,  

[00:32:41] Unknown:

and I gotta go pick up the parts that just came in. So So Plumbing issues, man. That's rarely fun. Don't envy that. I had to replace a wax seal on a toilet, and I put in one of those, like, new foam ones. Turns out when a wax seal fails   You're I You learn a lot real quick. Goodness, no. Dude, I would've I would've torn that sucker up so bad. It would've been gone. I would've had it no. It's it's tiled. Thank god. Yeah. The wax seal. Pro tip if you're replacing a toilet, don't put a wax seal in. Get one of the foam ones because if your toilet is not 100%   dead set and level and it rocks even the slightest amount over the course of, you know, three to 500   poops and pees of everyone visiting your house, you will eventually destroy that wax seal. This is your Rob Warren, this old house plumbing tip for the day.  

Always go for the slightly more expensive  

[00:33:36] Unknown:

foam wax seal on your toilet replacement. I got a pro tip from a Tyler   guy,   because he was having to take the toilet on and off every day to like do the tile for the floor, and he was putting like four wax seals on there. He would just like stack them up. Damn. Just more wax, more like   able to compensate for slight   irregularities in the floor. Wow. Yeah. Still terrifying.  

[00:34:01] Unknown:

I mean, I'm never doing that project again. It was probably cheaper for him to buy extra wax seals than it was to go back and reinstall a toilet even one time if it was leaking after he was done. Probably so. I mean, are they expensive? They're like $8 for something. I don't know. If it gets you to avoid a shitty situation then. Seriously. Go. Buy the whole shelf. Alright. So the state of the network, turns out it is still there. Hopefully, like your primary bathroom. Today is 07/30/2025.   We are at block height   907,000,   to be very specific,   800   and   b six. Brilliant. Slowly marching our way towards   seven digit   blocks. Over at Altair, Bitcoin and or Bitmain and miner s 21 XP, two seventy t for $299   a piece. $27 a terra hash and   each chip for $26.90.  

Pool.space   hash rate. It still   exists.   Wonderful. It is currently at 895.6   exahashes.   You love to see it. Almost 900 exahashes. And,   of course, that's a seven day moving average, but use the two week. It's way better. Taking a look at insights.brains.com,   hash value is at 50,000   per petahash per day, and hash price is $59   per petahash per day. And the halving is due nine hundred and   seventy seven days. So if you   have any plans for then, be sure to lock those dates down because it's going to be nice in the next, like, two point something years. Yeah. Any, insights, thoughts, commentary before we celebrate our beautiful and brilliant Hashers? I I've been pretty preoccupied  

[00:35:41] Unknown:

with what's been going on with Samurai Wallet. That's reasonable. Didn't we didn't we just have a big difficulty adjustment? I did not say anything. Because it it was like, what, like negative 7.5%   a couple adjustments ago. Surely, it's rebounded by now. I think it's rebounded and more. Yeah.  

[00:35:57] Unknown:

Makes sense. The miners just keep mining. Thank you for your,   your contributions and your sacrifices.   Alright. Ripping through the Hashers, looking at Ocean, we have   Bible Huddle.   Glad to see you. Ripping along. Always been a great supporter, Bible Huddle. Followed by?   Borst. Always good to see you, Borst. Followed by a new one, Hub. I don't know what Hub is, but we're glad that you're here.  

[00:36:21] Unknown:

Oh, okay.  

[00:36:22] Unknown:

This is the way. Finishing out on Ocean, we have Pizandy, proof of print bidax. So very glad that you're here. Sheesh, we have two more. We also have Zarkas'   Hash and the one and only Average Gary. Big shout out to you. Average Gary. What's that? Average Gary, you are the man for your contribution.   Jumping to public pool, we have Hack the Planet.   Hack the Planet. Looking at Solace K Pool, we have   Seed Center Oslo BidEx still ripping along. Scott will buy his $60 chicken sandwich and be happy. Followed, of course, by Hold up. Hold up. Ouchies.  

[00:36:56] Unknown:

Tangent.   Celeste Cape Pool solved a bunch of actual, you know, like, smallish minor blocks this last week. Did you see this? I think two. Was it more I did. I saw a couple posted. Maybe maybe it was two. One was, like, a 50 terahash miner. Yeah. Like, that's, like, 48 terahash from one miner, and then the other one, I think, was, like like, 200 plus petahash.   Okay. Not a small miner. But,   that's exciting. It's cool to see people,   you know, rolling the dice with solo mining. It's amazing.  

[00:37:25] Unknown:

Seeing those solo block finds. The more the merrier. Keep them up. I'd dislike  

[00:37:31] Unknown:

Boy.   Ocean   trying to celebrate   their block finds that are from   a miner running DATM and trying to celebrate it as if as though it's a solo block find. I didn't see that. Is that a thing? Different different definition of solo. Yeah. It's it's con it's confusing the the definitions of solo, and I just irks me. But, yeah, you'll often see, like, people from the ocean team or the ocean account, Luke,   celebrating,   miner who found a block   on their,   pool using datum.   If as to say, it's,   like,   significant in the way that a solo block find is where a single individual gets the entire   3.125  

[00:38:17] Unknown:

Bitcoin reward minus the pull fee or, you know, if they're finding it on their own, then there is no pull fee. I think they have to be a little bit careful about that. Right? Because if if they celebrate it too much, then that person's gonna be like, well, wait a second. If I was solo mining, I would be the proud owner of 3.125   Bitcoins right now. Instead, I just got, like, you know,  

[00:38:38] Unknown:

some sats. Yeah. They just got their, like, standard   sap valuation for the hash rate they contributed,   not, like, the full block reward, which is, like, that's the cool part is that, like, one person, any different than the next guy, plugs in a miner with 48 terra hash and wins a the block reward. Like, that's amazing. That is amazing. Don't get me wrong. Like, ocean solving more blocks is more better. But,  

[00:39:03] Unknown:

yeah. It's it's a little bit,  

[00:39:06] Unknown:

nuanced there with Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely nuance. Individual person that found it. I could do it with 48 terahash. I could do it. Got this? I'm built different. That's not even a big miner. They they were thinking maybe it was a I'm built different. It's not the size of the miner.   It's the quality of the hash. If you put Bitcoin on your balance sheet, I'll I'll buy your stocks. Oh my goodness. We are off the rails now. Looking at Sol C. K. Pool, we have schnitzelwal   x followed by seed signer bid x. Sorry, Rod. Out of creative work in aim stack set support fos followed   by rockpaper   bitcoin.fm.  

That is a new one, and I am going to immediately   navigate   to that website.  

[00:39:48] Unknown:

That's Business Cat's podcast.  

[00:39:50] Unknown:

Rockpaperbitcoin.fm.   Signal from Pennsylvania,   a Bitcoin podcast by Business Cat and Fundamentals.   Yo. Shout out. They also have an episode on Ashigaru, which I love because we were just talking about that. So check that out. Rockpaperbitcoin.fm.  

[00:40:07] Unknown:

Looks good. If you wanna hype your website on a immensely popular podcast,   I would suggest   making it the URL,  

[00:40:15] Unknown:

the minor worker name, and pointing it to Pateau Du Sik for fame, fortune, and more. Yeah. It's gonna get your name out to, you know, anywhere between three and ten million listeners. That's Also, Rock Paper Bitcoin. What a good name. Cheeky name. Props to you guys for a very good name. You know, I'm actually I'm surprised we haven't seen Hashrate dip in light of that,  

[00:40:36] Unknown:

earthquake in Russia last night. Did you see this? Yeah. It was on the Kamchatka Peninsula, though. It was, like, super, super, super  

[00:40:44] Unknown:

East Coast Russia. Yeah. I guess I was just anticipating   the   tsunami  

[00:40:50] Unknown:

fallout around the Pacific Rim to be more severe than it was. It was a total you know, they they sent the alarm out, and I was looking at the Maui map or the just the whole Hawaiian Islands map, and they were acting like it was gonna be, like, the end of days. Right? Like, full of day after tomorrow type stuff. And then from what I saw, it,   it didn't look like it was that crazy. But I don't think you can know. Right? You just can't you can't know. Like,   you gotta be ready for the tsunami because water having having lived in New Orleans for, like, the better part of ten years, water   is way scarier   Yeah. Than, like, the wind. Like, the hurricane   itself, it's like it's kinda rainy. Right? Like, you just don't wanna lose power because then you're sweating your face off. But it's the water. Like, if you get a foot and a half of water sitting in your,   like, street or something like this, it's like legitimately   terrifying. It rots through everything, it destroys   every car, every piece of oil or dirt or debris, every dead animal and every bush that has like, you know, you've been walking by for the last six months   is now floating in and around you. Like, you can't touch like, you don't wanna walk in the water if the streets flood because all the all the gasoline and oil and crap that's in there, it just eats through everything.  

Like, water is way freaking scarier than other forms of natural disaster that you can kind of avoid. So the tsunami, like,   thank God this one was very chill.   If you can have a chill tsunami. Were you in New Orleans during Katrina? Not Katrina, but I was there for,   like, two hurricanes and a few tropical storms. And they, you know, you gotta protect the citizens because as the famous guru says, the people are regarded. So you you have to really you have to really get them aware of the risk. Right? But sometimes you stay. Like, if it's a three or above, like, you get the heck out of dodge because that stuff is legitimately scary and you don't wanna be in a city with no services, no ancillary services and the military rolling down the street? Yeah.   Yeah. So that being said, on that note, looking at Lin coin, we have Schnitzel fish fish tank x. We have Scott Offord from Bitcoin Mining World, Scott Offord from Open Hash Foundation. Thank you for your contribution.  

And rounding it out, schnitzel   fish tank x. And guys, we're we're we're on the hour. That's, like, right on the nose 02:00. Should we wind it at,   at that point? Yeah. Let's hit it. It's been fun. Amazing. Great to chat with you guys. Always well. Alright. We'll catch you.   Alright. Yeah.